Friend was held at gunpoint today...

C

CMOS

New member
..in my neighborhood, in broad daylight.

A friend of mine a few doors down was held up at gunpoint at 3PM as he was preparing to mow his lawn. A Hispanic man walked into his back yard, pointed a small caliber pistol at him and told him his sob story that he had 4 kids, no job, broken truck and he needed some money.

My friend Bill, in his mid 60's, was very calm and explained to the man that he really did not have any money on him - and that since he did not have time to go to the ATM machine yesterday, only had 1 dollar in his wallet in the house. After about 20 seconds of calm talking by my friend, the perp did lower the pistol and had it by his side. Things could have gone really bad about now when his wife walked out the back door on them.

She asked what was wrong and was told by both Bill and the perp, "nothing's wrong". She saw the gun and as she was going back into the house Bill mouthed in silence the words, "CALL POLICE". Well she thought he said, "get pistol" - and went in the house to get the pistol.

The damn pistol was locked up and she could not get to it.

The perp finally got the message that Bill had no money and did leave on his own. No one was hurt. Bill and his wife were shaken up a bit but Bill did go right back out and mowed the law with his revolver in his pants.

The police were there within 2 minutes. They brought additional units, dogs and a helicopter.

Never found the puke.

I am very thankful that my friends were not harmed. He told me that back in 1995 a mutual friend of ours tried to convince him and his wife to get their CCW. He and his wife have now expressed renewed interest in looking into the CHL class. I spoke to Bill for about an hour this afternoon about the CHL and hope my coaxing and information will further encourage them to get the license.

What a sad but repeated story - gun in the house but isn't available for use.

Be safe and be prepared.

CMOS

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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!




[This message has been edited by CMOS (edited February 06, 2000).]
 
These creeps get more brazen everyday. Glad your story had a good outcome. Hope they take your advice. Crimes of that nature have not really hit my neck of the woods yet. But I believe it will just be a matter of time. We are getting a big influx of those types from New York and Philadelphia. They are having open season on one another, in broad daylight in downtown areas. Actual down right shootouts with innocents getting in the middle. And they want to take our guns?

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Help Stamp Out Gun Ignorance.



[This message has been edited by loknload (edited February 05, 2000).]
 
A cautionary tale. Also, an advertisement for ye old pocket gun.

At my first course, years ago, the instructor said the gun does you no good when you are in the basement doing the wash and the gun is three stories up in the master bedroom

I always have something when I am outside.

Even in the lightest clothes you can manage
a P-32 or a NAA mini.
 
So, if you have a pistol in your pocket, and he's already pointing his at you -- what do you do?

If you pull out yours when reaching for your wallet, you probably increase the likelyhood of him shooting you first, if he's pointing his at you. If his is pointed in a relatively "safe" direction, you might be able to get the drop on him and order him to drop his gun. Either way, it's dangerous.
 
When the perp has a gun showing and pointed in my general direction, there will be no "ordering to drop the gun" if I get to pull mine. LEOs don't call it a "challenge" for nothing. A perp high on adrenaline and himself will most probably react to your challenge in the most unfavorbale way, i.e. shoot you first. It is a bad idea to give advance warning when the conditions for defensive gun use are there (i.e. weapon present and pointed at you).

A prime rule is to never draw on a gun that's pointed at you already. I'd probably use my judgment, try to distract the perp or pretend to cooperate with him to put him at ease and lower his adrenaline level....wait for the chance to go for my weapon. I'd rather take a chance and bet my speed and skill against his rather than risk getting shot without ever trying to go for my gun.
 
I've finally come to accept the advice that you put it on in the morning, and take it off at night. That way, it's always there. BG's usually don't announce their arrival in advance.

Glad your friend was OK.

smithz, I would only point out that it got dangerous the minute the BG pulled out his weapon. Agreed that CMOS's friend was in a dicey spot from which to pull his own gun.
 
Something to be said for pocket and small of the back carry and practicing point shooting. Personally, I have found that carrying a P32 or a .38 snubbie around the house isn't any effort at all.

I would draw on a pointed gun, esp. a smaller one. They might get off a rushed shot but that would beat an aimed malicious one. Keep in mind that most of us also have the family to protect from possible intrusion.

Trying to convince my parents to practice more...glad to see my mother has figured out enough to spread handguns around the house instead of all in one place.
 
All it would have had to been was, "Yes, Sir, I'll just get my wallet out and you can go." And where you would have been carrying your wallet was/is your Thugalator(tm).



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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Ankeny, exactly.

Here it was broad daylight and this guy just walked into his back yard.

Why does this type of thing happen? Because there are no consequences for the perps when they do this. This guy got away. He got a bit of experience. I'd say that he was new to this due to the fact that he was very nervous and did lower the pistol to his side after a short bit. Next time he will be more brazen, have more confidence, maybe be sure to walk his next victim into the house before conducting "business".

This type of crime will not decrease in frequency intil we the citizens take more responsibility for our safety. Call the police, file a "report", end of story.

Nothing more can be done by the police, but we can...

Be safe.

CMOS
 
What to do if a gun is pointed at you and
your's is holstered?

Are you better without one?

You wait for the tactical moment. You give
up the dough if need be. You do what you have to do.

But, it would be good to have some training.

And if push comes to shove, I saw Greg Hamilton do this scenario. One of us was the bad guy and had Greg at gun point. He was
telling Greg what to do. Greg drew and hosed him (Code Eagle of course). So it can be
done if that's your path, Grasshopper.
 
This reminds me of the time I listened to that deep thinker, Rosie O'Donnell try to convince the audiance that it only takes eight seconds to remove a trigger lock and that is plenty of time to gain access to your pistol. Yeah, right.

Will

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Mendacity is the system we live in.
 
We're talking conversational distances here, right? Not being Wyatt Earp, drawing against a weapon at ready would be suicide for me.

Hope for a distraction?
 
smithz, just because you're packing doesn't mean that you necessarily shoot the SOB. It merely gives you an option. Many, MANY thugs believe that the mere fact that they have a gun will give them power over all in their presence. They simply will not believe that you can turn the power in your favor, even as they observe you clumsily digging in your pocket for small persuader of your own. The pistol in your pocket is not a guarentee; it is a choice; it is an option. If you believe that you are going to be shot, what does it hurt you to pull out your own pistol? If you can safely hand over the money and no one got hurt, what did it hurt you to have the pistol on you?

My father and I play a game at the range called "Beating the drop." Wearing your pistol in a holster or in your pocket, you face a dueling tree or a blank target. Your opponent also faces the dueling tree or a blank target, but has his pistol out, and pointed at it at hip-level; his pistol is mostly just pointed in the "general direction." While engaging your oppenent in speech (very important; this results in a "brain fart" that gives you a second for him to react), you draw as fast as you can, and put a bullet in the target. As fast as he can after seeing you begin to move, your opponent attemts to do the same, either by shooting from the hip or by bringing up his gun and firing through the sights. Very, very often, the man with the pistol out of sight can beat the guy whose pistol is out. A 1.5 second draw (tortoise-like slowness!) from concealed carry can sometimes beat a shot someone fires "from the drop."

Being armed is having options....
 
CMOS,
It would have been nice if the wife could have taken the badguy's head off with an AR15 from the kitchen window.
 
AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!
I never leave home without 1.) My sigpro in .357 sig, 2.) My 2" .357 Detective Magnum 3.)My wits. I'd have drawn and fired 2 quick chest shots and then maintained defensive posture 'till the cops showed up to do the paper work (which is undoubtedley all they did in this instance also). Jose' even had a thought of moving, 2 more chest shots for the poor guy.Why doesn't your neighbor donate that extra lawn tool to the local charity, as it certainly is not being put to proper use there and could be used by an honest, loyal and trustworthy citezen to be used just as such.
 
Also found out that "somewhere" in the house was a 12GA pistol grip shotgun.

"Somewhere" being the operative word here.

You all have made some very valid points about whether or not my friend COULD have gotten a shot off or not. After many questions to my friend, it seems he did have the opportunity to draw on the perp if he were to have been carrying. After about 15-20 seconds the perp did lower his weapon to his side as my friend was very calming in his conversation. It took Bill almost an entire minute to explain to the perp that he realy did not have any money. Bill said if he did have a gun he would have had ample opportunity to draw on the guy, in his opinion.

CMOS
 
We don't always know trouble is coming.

I carry two "wallets". One has my driver's license and CHL, the other has cash, credit cards, and everything else. I will gladly give wallet "B" to anyone who has the drop on me.

Nobody gets hurt, and the creep doesn't see my CHL, so I keep my gun.
 
Jeez- What a tough spot to be in. The punks are getting more and more daring or desperate. I have convinced myself to have a gun on me even for a trip to the mailbox.
I helped coach the kids at the Y yesterday. Carried my KelTec P-11 in a DeSantis iwb and was as comfortable as could be. Never once felt concealability was compromised or retention was a problem. I guess that is why I carry in venues like that. How many parents are packing in relationship to the kids that could get wasted by a BG.
Call it a hero complex if you will
(anti gunners) but I protect my own.

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Knock twice. Rap with your cane. Feels nice. You're out of the rain. We got your skinny girls. Here at the Western World
from Steely Dan's "Western World"
 
Lots of testosterone here kids. First of all the REAL problem is not a gun issue. As nice folks we let strangers get far to close to us. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Few civilians take charge of their surroundings and criminals know that and get in close to do their dirty deeds. We can't go through life gun ready and have vulnerable moments. Heck, for ONE THIRD of our life we sleep and are totally incapable of defense. Few think of that.
Most cops die without touching the gun in the holster on their hip. A fact that tells us something we have to think about.
Another problem was a locked up and inaccessable gun. That will continue to be a problem in the future for obvious reasons.
In this case his wife should have and could have been trained to be his backup. Few thugs would take on a guy with a wife or even a child nearby that is capable and ready to defend. Had he seem the wife nearby behind some kind of barrier with a gun, I assure you they or he would have fled. They don't like fights they can't win. Even if she had no clue as to what she was doing the thug wouldn't know that.
I live in a high crime area and it got so bad I mowed my lawn with a gun on. I still often work in the yard with a small airweight .38 special.
Most of the time we can avoid the problem by not letting folks getting close to us and to be aware of what goes on around us.
That is easy to say by the way, but I have been HAD many times by accident and a few on purpose. Even teaching this subject for a living isn't a guarantee I won't get hurt.
It is indeed a jungle out there. I'm reminded of the old fable of the evangelist in the jungle who went to convert the cannibals. They hung on his everyword with intense interest. When he was done...they ATE HIM!!! That is how it works I guess.
 
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