An Uzi on semi-auto is effectively a 10" barreled carbine, and much better at allowing you to "choose your shots carefully" than any handgun. I don't think they could get a better weapon in a similiar size... even the Secret Service relies on the Uzi to protect the president.
French anti-terror tactics
- Thread starter Duxman
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
When I searched on google on this topic, I came up with a series of stories from different locations about unloaded guns. I'm sure some were but clearly some weren't.
Glen,
The first link is one of the BEST pro firearms articles I have ever read. Thank you for educating me.
Unfortunately the 2nd link has a 404 error.
The primary website to the first link is now in my knowledge base bookmark. I cant say enough - terrific read.
Very informative survey as well.
The first link is one of the BEST pro firearms articles I have ever read. Thank you for educating me.
Unfortunately the 2nd link has a 404 error.
The primary website to the first link is now in my knowledge base bookmark. I cant say enough - terrific read.
Very informative survey as well.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/Feature/2004/11_Feature.htm
See if this works, I copied it from the site. If not go to:
http://teddytactical.com/Archives.html and look down the left column for
11 - Being an Active Shooter.
Thanks for the nice words!
PS - I recopied the links and they work now - I hope
See if this works, I copied it from the site. If not go to:
http://teddytactical.com/Archives.html and look down the left column for
11 - Being an Active Shooter.
Thanks for the nice words!
PS - I recopied the links and they work now - I hope
Most times I have been in europe --- France, Germany and Italy in particular there have been various long arm armed patrolls around the airport and the train stations, no idea as to the status of the wepon, however I think in a high profile patrol, havign a long arm around is a good idea. Especally given a couple of incidents in the 80's where terrorists just shot at people in line at either american or other target countries ticket counters.
The idea of carrying a wepon that is compleatly unloaded --- empty mag, is so stupid it hardly merits discussion --- think about it --- all you ahve to do is pop the fellow with the pistol and you have inactivated the whole 3 man team untill they get their crap together again.
I suppose carry with the mag full, chamber empty has a place --- kinda like a cruiser ready shotgun carry that has been used for years, and if that is what it takes to get long arms authorized for carry by some who are also armed with a pistol than maybe it's a worth while trade off though I;d still rather see better training as the anser.
The idea of carrying a wepon that is compleatly unloaded --- empty mag, is so stupid it hardly merits discussion --- think about it --- all you ahve to do is pop the fellow with the pistol and you have inactivated the whole 3 man team untill they get their crap together again.
I suppose carry with the mag full, chamber empty has a place --- kinda like a cruiser ready shotgun carry that has been used for years, and if that is what it takes to get long arms authorized for carry by some who are also armed with a pistol than maybe it's a worth while trade off though I;d still rather see better training as the anser.
IZinterrogator
New member
Don't be so sure, UT. My favorite place to carry a 30-round M16 mag when I have just one is in my back pocket. Makes for easy muscle memory since I have to reach back there for my wallet all the time.
The Uzi or MP5 are much safer in a crowd situation than handguns if properly trained people are carrying them. You do not spray the crowd on full auto as portrayed on TV and the movies. On semi, the MP5 is like shooting a .22 and accurate shooting is much easier than with a handgun. The Uzi is open bolt but fires with advanced ignition so accurate shooting is fairly easy once you learn the gun. I shoot both extensively and would give the MP5 a slight edge for easy head shots but the Uzi is not far behind. There is a good reason the Secret Service used them all those years protecting dignitary types even in crowd situations. A miss with a 9mm in a crowd is much more likely with a handgun than a subgun with a properly trained operator.
That said, it seems not allowing the officer to even carry the ammo for his own weapon might indicate a training or confidence issue. Keep in mind it is mostly for show and deterrence factors anyway.
That said, it seems not allowing the officer to even carry the ammo for his own weapon might indicate a training or confidence issue. Keep in mind it is mostly for show and deterrence factors anyway.
Say what you want about the French, at least they aren't falling for the rush towards globalization. They said 'no' to the European Constitution, and have basically caused Tony Blair to give up his goal for a European Nation.
And at least they had the guts to stand up and also say 'no' to Bush's lies. You'll notice that France's veto on war in Iraq has not prevented the US from doing whatever they want in Iraq, so why you all are all pissed off about them not wanting to go to Iraq is beyond me.
And at least they had the guts to stand up and also say 'no' to Bush's lies. You'll notice that France's veto on war in Iraq has not prevented the US from doing whatever they want in Iraq, so why you all are all pissed off about them not wanting to go to Iraq is beyond me.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the National Guard was carrying unloaded guns in our airports after the Sept.11 attacks. I really think they were just there to make people feel better.
My dad was stationed at the NAS in Jacksonville during the bay of pigs days. He's told me stories of "guarding" the beach with an unloaded gun.
My dad was stationed at the NAS in Jacksonville during the bay of pigs days. He's told me stories of "guarding" the beach with an unloaded gun.
Last edited:
Limeyfellow
New member
People think its bad that the Uzis are unloaded and have to get the rounds from a group leader? Thats nothing compared to the National Guard and Reserve in Iraq being sent on patrol with only blanks because they haven't got enough real ammunation, and thats in a warzone.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Hell my Dad, a senior NCO in the NJ national Guard "Jersey Blues" in 1967 made his first patrol through roitinh Newark without ammo. After that, he liberated some for his 45, and a carbine too.
WildhewantedathompsonbuthteystoppedhimAlaska
WildhewantedathompsonbuthteystoppedhimAlaska
IZinterrogator
New member
Who told you that utter bull****? Not everything you read or hear is real.
France Raises Terror Alert Level
This just in: France has today, raised their nation's terror alert level from:
"Run" to "Hide". The only 2 higher levels are: "Surrender" and "Collaborate"
This move was made necessary by the destruction of their largest White Flag Factory which all but destroyed their entire millitary.
This just in: France has today, raised their nation's terror alert level from:
"Run" to "Hide". The only 2 higher levels are: "Surrender" and "Collaborate"
This move was made necessary by the destruction of their largest White Flag Factory which all but destroyed their entire millitary.
Jack Malloy
New member
Nobody likes making fun of the french more than me.
I did it a long time before the current brouh ha ha too.
20 years ago in college, I was prone to say, "France has not won a war since Ceasar conquered Gaul" and so forth.
Nobody laughed louder than I did when Captain America yelled, "This letter A on my mask doesn't stand for france" when beating the tar out of a bad guy last year in the "Ultimates" comic book....
Now, having said all that, I have to point something out that most of us would probably not want to admit.
The typical French police officer is a HELL of a lot closer to our cinematic "Dirty Harry" than most American swat cops are.
The reason is that over here, our police are basically tormented and hamstrung by liability lawyers, weak kneed police chiefs and the likes. The American police officer has become nothing but a glorified babysitter, handing out Domestic Violence Petitions, telling people to cooperate with criminals and showing up AFTER the crime to sweep up the mess and fill out paperwork. They spend 90 percent of their time having to act as babysitters to wife beaters and idiots who can't behave like adults. They live in terroro f that moment when they do get the chance to do their job, the job they love and the job they were trained for when the monday morning quarterbacks and the administators and the attorneys will jump forward and CRUCIFY them.
The French police officer HAS NO such restrictions placed upon him by his society the way we do our police.
When American cops carried .38s, they carried magnums. When American cops got magnums, they got autoloaders, etc. They tend to shoot first and ask questions later too. They don't have much consideration for the rights of criminals, and they are pretty much feared by criminals. Hate the french thoguh I might, they dont have the crime problem that we have here in the US simply because they would never tolerate it.
When the typical citizen of the US could not get a gun permit, french citizens could, by the way. Heck, with a hunting permit, you could carry a .44 magnum revolver concealed in france way back in the 1980s.
Don't mistakenly confuse the French policeman's aggressiveness, just becuase he comes from a country full of @$$ holes and his government is infested with them.
For crying out loud boys, it ain't like they are British bobbies, after all.....
I did it a long time before the current brouh ha ha too.
20 years ago in college, I was prone to say, "France has not won a war since Ceasar conquered Gaul" and so forth.
Nobody laughed louder than I did when Captain America yelled, "This letter A on my mask doesn't stand for france" when beating the tar out of a bad guy last year in the "Ultimates" comic book....
Now, having said all that, I have to point something out that most of us would probably not want to admit.
The typical French police officer is a HELL of a lot closer to our cinematic "Dirty Harry" than most American swat cops are.
The reason is that over here, our police are basically tormented and hamstrung by liability lawyers, weak kneed police chiefs and the likes. The American police officer has become nothing but a glorified babysitter, handing out Domestic Violence Petitions, telling people to cooperate with criminals and showing up AFTER the crime to sweep up the mess and fill out paperwork. They spend 90 percent of their time having to act as babysitters to wife beaters and idiots who can't behave like adults. They live in terroro f that moment when they do get the chance to do their job, the job they love and the job they were trained for when the monday morning quarterbacks and the administators and the attorneys will jump forward and CRUCIFY them.
The French police officer HAS NO such restrictions placed upon him by his society the way we do our police.
When American cops carried .38s, they carried magnums. When American cops got magnums, they got autoloaders, etc. They tend to shoot first and ask questions later too. They don't have much consideration for the rights of criminals, and they are pretty much feared by criminals. Hate the french thoguh I might, they dont have the crime problem that we have here in the US simply because they would never tolerate it.
When the typical citizen of the US could not get a gun permit, french citizens could, by the way. Heck, with a hunting permit, you could carry a .44 magnum revolver concealed in france way back in the 1980s.
Don't mistakenly confuse the French policeman's aggressiveness, just becuase he comes from a country full of @$$ holes and his government is infested with them.
For crying out loud boys, it ain't like they are British bobbies, after all.....