Freedom Arms .454 Casull question

B

BlackRazor

New member
Hey all,

I have a 7.5" bbl ported freedom arms .454 Casull revolver, and noted that the manual said I should not put .45 colt rounds through it. Now, I always thought you could put the lower powered rounds through revolvers with the same chambering diameter (e.g. 38 spl through a .357 mag is OK) and there would be no harm done. Is there something I'm missing about the FA revolver? I'm tired of having to bruise my hand everytime I want to shoot such a beautiful gun. Thanks,

-Robert
 
.45Colt in Freedom Arms .454Casull

I don't claim to be an expert on this, and I
certainly don't speak for Freedom Arms, but just
recently I came across some information in one of
the mags about this same thing. I'll bet that what
F.A. tells you is that they are concerned about a
"ring" forming just at the point where the case
mouth sits in the throat of the chamber. Their
tolerances are so close that they worry about
guys who shoot a fair amount of .45Colt in the
.454's then going and putting increased pressure
on the cylinder when they shoot .454's out of the
same revolver. Seems that this "ring", which sits
about 1/16th of an inch deeper in the throat than
where the .454 ring would be, boosts the pressure
upon firing. Like I said, I'm no expert. And I
too would like to hear the reply from F.A.
For, IMHO, it should be okay if you diligently
scrub your piece after firing .45Colt ammo in it.
 
I was under the impression that Freedom Arms sold a 45LC cylinder as a companion to this revolver. I always found this to be unusual, given that I shoot .38 specials out of my .357 Mag. - thought this would be the same situation.

I, too, would be very interested to know what the factory explanation is regarding this...
 
Here's what the said...

Hello Robert,
The problem is not with a lower powered round, it is with a shorter
round. The 45 Colt is .100 shorter than the 454 Casull brass. The shorter
cartridge allows for a build up in the chamber. This build up is hard to
see and when you go back to 454 rounds, it will feel a little sticky in the
chambers. When you fire the rounds, the mouth of the case cannot open
properly which causes a build up of pressures. When you try to extract your
brass, you will have troubles and may not be able to extract at all. We
have also seen pitting and corrosion in the chamber. It is best to have the
extra 45 Colt cylinder fit to the gun or to download in your 454 brass. If
you have anymore questions, please feel free to e-mail back.

Stephanie
 
so...

it would seem that this would also be a problem shooting any lower powered round through a high powered revolver, 38 spl vs .357 mag, 44 spl vs 44 mag, etc. Has anyone ever had a problem extracting cases becuase of shooting too much low powered ammo through their gun? I know I can download my .454 rounds, but the thing is I've run into a situation where I don't have any more ammo and I want to shoot a few more, but the only type of ammo the store sells if .45 colt, so I hold off. I get the feeling that shooting .45 colts through my gun shouldn't be a problem, unless I do it excessively. What do you all think? Thanks,

-Robert

P.S. I could also have the .45 colt cylinder fit to the gun, but who knows what that would cost and how long it would take?
 
Most handgun rounds just don't generate the pressure the .454 does. And most handguns don't have the tight tolerences the FA have. They are extremely strong, but not indestructable. It doesn't take much to escalate pressures into the stratosphere when dealing with the .454. Why risk damaging a premium revolver or yourself? It's just not worth it for a little inconvience, IMO.

If you must shoot the .45 Colt, buy the extra cylinder, costs about $350 and takes about 3 weeks. I found the .45 ACP cylinder very handy.
 
Yeah, now that I think about it, the .45 ACP would be even better, and I might as well get that cyliner if I'm going to get another one anyway... especially since I already own a .45 but still don't have a .45 colt. Though I don't understand how it is you can make a single action revolver work with .45 ACP rounds... you can't use full moon clips or something like that, can you? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I don't have any double action revolvers (nor do I intend to) and I thought that you could only get auto rounds to shoot through double action revolvers? Thanks,

-Robert
 
I would also go with the .45 acp cylinder. Gives you far more of a power range.
With the .45 acp you can go light, then medium with mild .454 and then full bore if you want to. I never thought you gained much with the extra 45LC cylinder.

(Of course there is the 45 Win Mag option also)

Or, you could find a reloader that you trust and just have them load a ton of mild .454 for you. Probably could get a fair amount for the cost of the spare cylinder, and you won't have to send your gun out to get it fitted.
 
The .45 acp headspaces on the case mouth (they will be flush in the cylinder), so with the FA or any SA revolver it will be easy to push the cases out (with the ejector rod).

As most (the 9mm S&W and Ruger excepted) DA revolvers have a star extractor set up for rimmed cases, either a moon clip is used (to act as a rim) to facilitate ejection or you can extract them with a fingernail (although it may not be easy).
 
I understand and agree with everyone on the ring and high pressure possibilities after firing a run of non magnim brass and then firing full length magnum brass. For handloaders like myself I just load mild "target" loads in full length magnum brass. This also has a side benefit as bullet jump to the rifling is less and usuall amounts to better accuracy. I enjoy much more shooting with my magnums this way and use full house loads only when necessary.
 
my last question/reservation

I'm cool with downloading .454 rounds to .45 Colt powder levels, but I thought that I heard doing such things could be dangerous. However, after listening to the discussion here, I guess that's not the case? I thought that underloading a round could be just as dangerous as overloading it? Has anyone ever heard of this? If not, I'll just go ahead and relaod my .454's to .45 LC right away. Thanks for all the help, it's been really helpful.

-Robert
 
BlackRazor, I am about to embark on a simliar quest in reloading for my SRH .454.

I finally have about 120 rounds of brass and the reloading equipment :D I noticed the rings forming in my cylinder chambers where I have been reloading .45LC and don't want the extra cleaning chore.

However, I load my .45LC to produce 500ft-lbs @ 100yards to simulate the rounds I'll need for hunting. Using a 255grn lead SWC my target velocity is around 1200fps. So downloading the .454 to this level shouldn't be to awful. Recoil with this round to me is neglible and accuracy has been good in .45LC.

Using Hodgdon's No.27 Manual and the load data for the 260gr Speer JHP with Universal powder I should be able to achieve this goal safely. Min velocity with a Jacket Bullet is 1157fps in a FA 9.375" barrel, using lead approx 5grns lighter in a 7.5" barrel the velocity should still be in the sweet spot of required power without much recoil. Wish I had access to a chrony!!!

I have read also about low volume powder charges creating over pressure conditions. The free manual that VihtaVouri offers is a good technical reference for that information, towards the end of the booklet possibly in their cowboy loads section. A powder that I have heard of being suited for this type of situation is Hodgdon's Titegroup, and that data is also found in the hodgon manual, but more research on the subject would be prudent.

Maybe the Hodgdon Manual would be able to help you find a load too. If you search you should find a reduced power load by Winchester in .454Casull if you want to use Factory Ammo.

Best of Luck finding the sweet spot.
 
Thats it hksigwalther, sorry for my mixing of terms :o

VihatVouri Reloading Guide for Rifles and Handguns 1-00:;pg 53 paragraph 1
3) Risk for Underload Detonation

This risk is always present when using highly reduced loads of any smokeless powder. The large free space in the case may generate a pressure wave which can cause, in the worst case, powder to burn as a shock wave, i.e. to detonate, instead of normal fast burning process. The extremely sharp pressure peeks involved in detonation can destroy the weapon and may lead to serious injury
Click to expand...

I like to be clear even though my redneck brain works like the absent-minded professor, hence the source.
 
DaHaMac,

12 grains of Unique will give you around 1200 fps with a 255. The nice thing is that with a 255, Unique will give you about 100 fps per grain. Try Beartooths (if you haven't already), they make a great cast bullet, worth the long wait.

JB
 
I'll take the lazy man's way out and ask for a link and more information for this Beartooth. :) If not, I'll google.

I've been thinking about trying laser-cast for the .454 loads but haven't decided where to buy from yet. It seems all the reloading retailers here in GA have packed up shop or they don't care about advertising and finding good lead locally has been akin to lookin for hen's teeth. GA Arms is the most likely local canidate for my reloading purchase, but I didn't like their lead for .45ACP.
 
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