Free Speech is Okay, Unless You Favor Gun Rights

C

computerguysd

New member
I just read about this in a regional blog. Unbelievable... :mad:

Full article
http://citypages.com/databank/28/1379/article15402.asp

"Whenever I am in the Twin Cities, I look for a copy of City Pages. You can almost always find a pile of them when you walk into any brew pub or Indian restaurant. It contains a lot of information about events in the cities, as well as cartoons and some interesting journalism. The politics is hard urban left, and always a bit nutty. But now and again you find a surprise. This piece, by Ward Rubrecht, is a surprise. It concerns the case of Troy Scheffler, a Hamline University grad student.

A gun-toting concealed carry permit holder, he rarely leaves home without his sidearm. He feels safer in the rough areas of town when he's armed, though he knows not everyone feels safe around him. A couple of days ago, he got pulled over for speeding. When the cop noticed the concealed carry permit, he ordered Scheffler out of the car, patted him down, and searched his car.
Apparently the exercise of legal rights in the cities is probable cause for Minneapolis's finest. But it was Mr. Scheffler's views on the Virginia Tech tragedy that got him in trouble with Hamline's administration.

In the aftermath, officials at Hamline University sought to comfort their 4,000 students. David Stern, the vice president for academic and student affairs, sent a campus-wide email offering extra counseling sessions for those who needed help coping.

Scheffler had a different opinion of how the university should react. Using the email handle "Tough Guy Scheffler," Troy fired off his response: Counseling wouldn't make students feel safer, he argued. They needed protection. And the best way to provide it would be for the university to lift its recently implemented prohibition against concealed weapons.

"Ironically, according to a few VA Tech forums, there are plenty of students complaining that this wouldn't have happened if the school wouldn't have banned their permits a few months ago," Scheffler wrote. "I just don't understand why leftists don't understand that criminals don't care about laws; that is why they're criminals. Maybe this school will reconsider its repression of law-abiding citizens' rights."

Hamline officials took swift action. On April 23, Scheffler received a letter informing him he'd been placed on interim suspension. To be considered for readmittance, he'd have to pay for a psychological evaluation and undergo any treatment deemed necessary, then meet with the dean of students, who would ultimately decide whether Scheffler was fit to return to the university.
The consequences were severe. Scheffler wasn't allowed to participate in a final group project in his course on Human Resources Management, which will have a big impact on his final grade. Even if he's reinstated, the suspension will go on his permanent record, which could hurt the aspiring law student.
This is a flagrant violation of freedom of speech and freedom of petition. But freedom is not what the modern university is about, is it?"

FROM the SOUTH DAKOTA POLITICS blog
 
If it was just about the guns it'd be one thing but he goes off on rants about minorities and jews....yeah, that probably tipped it over the edge. Perhaps if he'd just stuck to the issue at hand the response might have been different. Either way the response was uncalled for but he certainly did himself no favors by bitching about black students and non-christian professors.
 
I say we let Troy speak for himself:

From: Tough Guy Scheffler
To: David Stern
Subject: I dont think the students need the counseling...
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:54 PM

Considering this university also pushes "diversity" initiatives like VA Tech, maybe its "leadership" will reconsider its ban on conceal carry law abiding gun owners... Ironically, according to a few VA Tech forums, there are plenty of students complaining that this wouldnt have happened if the school wouldnt have banned their permits a few months ago...

I just dont understand why leftists dont understand that criminals dont care about laws; that is why they're criminals... Maybe this school will reconsider its repression of law abiding citizens rights.

Considering that accoriding to the university president that there were recently serious "hate crimes" that were committed in the womens bathrooms; there may be people on the edge ready to snap. I cant say I blame them, I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard).

Oh by the way, when is your "diversity" department going to include European ancestry?

Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler
Click to expand...

And then...

>>> "Tough Guy Scheffler" >>> 4/19/2007 10:15 PM >>>

I was wondering why a swastika painted by some frustrated ladies in their bathroom turned somehow into red flags of a hate crime but you dont consider an asian guy admittedly killing people because he hated them not hate motivated...

Anyhow, in response to your most recent email concerning a vigil for people most likely nobody in the school knows; I would like to comment on your claims of upped "security". I attend a MPLS cohort so I dont see any security in the area ever. Infact it seems the dirty bums on the street are the only ones patrolling anything. I would suggest if you are truley concerned about student security, you lift a ridiculous conceal carry campus ban and let the students worry about their own "security". VA Tech just recently passed their conceal carry permit ban; we can all see how well that worked for criminal minds.

Ironically, many students from VA Tech are in online forums which I can direct you to complaining that 32 people wouldnt have died in the students rights were not infringed by banning their legal right to carry their arms on their person. They take the argument that they would have shot the guy before he was able to massacre that many people; I on the other hand would argue that the guy wouldnt have even attempted this atrocity not only if we didnt pay for everybody and their mother to come here for free to soak up tuition funds but also that by knowing law abiding citizens carried weapons to defend themselves that criminals wouldnt be so bold to commit crimes against them...

As usual, Im sure this plea of common sense will fall on deaf ears as I recently responded to a general email notifying students of the conceal carry ban...

On a lighter note... For a "Christian" university, I am very disappointed in Hamline. With the motif of the curriculum, the atheist professors, jewish and other non-Christian staff, I would charge the school with wanton misrepresentation.

Yes, I obviously feel that Hamline has been a serious let down, so far I am almost finished with half of my MAPA degree and havent even cracked a book. All the books that came in plastic wrap are still in plastic wrap despite the ridiculous amounts students are charged. I have yet to hear a student in my cohort that is happy with the curriculum or quality of professors. Why does this school charge so much for such a substandard education?

Furthermore, why are you diversity initiatives anti-Euro American (ie white folks)? All over the university grounds I see loads of leftist propaganda, why not warn a student before they enroll at Hamline? It took me complaining to a few different people before even the hamline website finally included white people in the random pictures on the main page. If I remember corrextly it was like 1 white in a picture out of like 12... Now it is obviously better but just goes to show how biased this university is and the painstaking efforts of diversity pandering it does at the expense of people that are actually planning on contributing back to the TAXPAYERS that are footing the bill for your diversity initiatives. In fact, 3 out of 3 students just in my class that are "minorities" are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR. I bet the staff here is wondering how a swastika ended up in a bathroom... More people than you can imagine are tired of this all. It's just sad that they resort to petty vandalism rather than speak their mind like I am.

Please stop alienating the students that are working hard every day to pay for their tuition. Maybe you can instruct your staff on sensitivity training towards us "privilaged white folk". If your staff is going to continually berate the evil white male for this privilage and his racist tendencies, at least have them explain where to find the privilages and point out the evil people that are ruining the world. Strange for how horribly racist Europeans and other white people are that everyone seems to want to exploit our generosity. Maybe someday the favor will be returned but I doubt it seeing what I have so far...

Thanks for your time...
Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler
Click to expand...

So yeah, about half of those were about the actual gun ban, and half were just complaining about diversity initiatives, atheists, minorities, etc.

Not sure I support the action the university took, but I don't think the original post here was a full and accurate representation of the story.

Also, seriously...complaining because you've never bothered to open a single one of your books? This isn't grade school; you often get out of college about as much as you are willing to put into it, and this says a lot about this guy as a student. But whatever.
 
When the cop noticed the concealed carry permit[...]
Click to expand...

See, that's the problem, it's the WEAPON that is supposed to be concealed, not the PERMIT...

:D


I do wish the "university" had made a statement though as to justification for the suspension.
 
I agree that Troy comes across as plenty policitally incorrect, but it seems pretty obvious that the suspension was more due to the fact that he has a concealed carry permit and that makes the school consider him dangerous. He certainly never threatened anyone so why the need to post armed police outside his classroom...

"Scheffler obeyed the campus ban and didn't go to class, but his classmate, Kenny Bucholz, told him a police officer was stationed outside the classroom. "He had a gun and everything," Bucholz says. Dean Julian Schuster appeared at the beginning of class to explain the presence of the cop, citing discipline problems with a student. Although Schuster never mentioned Scheffler by name, it didn't take a scholar to see whose desk was empty.

Scheffler has tried to get answers from the university, to no avail. On April 25, he called President Hanson's office to request a meeting, but when he told the secretary his name, she claimed the computer system had crashed and she couldn't access the president's schedule. She promised to call Scheffler back, but more than a week later, he's still waiting."
 
I agree that Troy comes across as plenty policitally incorrect, but it seems pretty obvious that the suspension was more due to the fact that he has a concealed carry permit and that makes the school consider him dangerous. He certainly never threatened anyone so why the need to post armed police outside his classroom...
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not. I think a concealed carry permit along with a couple manifestos about how downtrodden the white man is Hamline and how he can understand painting swastikas up in the women's bathroom and what not may have been a factor.

In fact, I'd bet money that if another student had simply written a quick letter stating that he things that instead lifting the ban might be a better option, and had he mentioned having a permit, without all the extra commentary he'd probably not have been suspended. It would have been pretty hard to find grounds to, really.

Seriously, I'd say the quasi-racist garbage is what got him suspended...not the permit. Openly admitting that he hadn't torn the shrink wrap off of a single book during his time at the school probably didn't help, either.

EDIT: Yeah, JP, you're right. He does raise a great point. Us white Christian males really do have it rough. I don't know how we manage. :rolleyes:
 
eah, JP, you're right. He does raise a great point. Us white Christian males really do have it rough. I don't know how we manage.
Click to expand...

Hey Juan I thought you were an asian satanist ;)

WilditswonrightAlaska
 
He certainly never threatened anyone so why the need to post armed police outside his classroom...
Click to expand...

He didn't explicitly threaten anyone, but this quote would be construed as such by stupid administrators:

there may be people on the edge ready to snap. I cant say I blame them, I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard).
Click to expand...

3 out of 3 students just in my class that are "minorities" are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR.
Click to expand...

I didn't know international students get a free education in the USA... and are they minorities or not, why the double quotes? And if they are treated with a lower and more lenient standard, then maybe the school sucks. Maybe he should go to a better school if he is so unhappy with this one. He should spend HIS DOLLAR somewhere else.


Seriously, most of his rant is about minorities, not about his right to carry.
 
Juan-true "liberty and justice for all" is unattainable, I think. Humans are all fallen and all corrupt, myself included. The pendulam is going to swing one way or the other. But it has been my experience that the pendulam is swung in favor of African Americans, women, Hispanics, and minorities. Maybe not as much in the"real world" as in my school (Christian), but this guy was a student.
What really ticks me off is this guys suspension over these Emails. It's called free speech, it's guaranteed in the First Amendment. There are no grounds for suspending this guy.
 
What really ticks me off is this guys suspension over these Emails. It's called free speech, it's guaranteed in the First Amendment. There are no grounds for suspending this guy.
Click to expand...

What is with the U.S. education system, don't they teach anything about the constitution?

The first amendment (with the 14th), states the government cannot abridge your right to free speech. It has nothing to do with what a private university chooses to do.

Also unless there is some law in place, there is no need for grounds to suspend the guy. There is no 'right to not be suspended from Hamline University' in the constitution.
 
While his screed could have been better written, and his monicker is silly, he's pretty much voicing what many(most?) people think at this point. Sad that there is an element here so concerned about judging others based on their PC Quotient.

Anyway, it's obvious the school did this over the firearms issue, which can be cloaked by the handy-dandy non-pc view on minoity coddling. Obviously it works well enough to cloud the event for some...
 
While his screed could have been better written, and his monicker is silly, he's pretty much voicing what many(most?) people think at this point. Sad that there is an element here so concerned about judging others based on their PC Quotient.
Click to expand...

I've found that accusations of "political correctness" are second only to accusations of racism when it comes to arguments that people who have nothing better to fall back on use.

Anyway, it's obvious the school did this over the firearms issue, which can be cloaked by the handy-dandy non-pc view on minoity coddling. Obviously it works well enough to cloud the event for some...
Click to expand...

Yep, you're right. PC liberals, olol!!1!1!

I'm sure his non-gun related attitudes had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
 
Sad that we'll lose this issue over splits in the ranks not from types of firearms/styles of ownership, but over political and social middle-of-the-roaders. A case in point would be that anyone feels his views on minority coddling were/are agressive enough to justify such actions of the school.
 
unfortunately it's shmucks like that guy who make gun owners look bad.

Anti-gun people don't hate the guns as much as they hate the gunners. They see them as lower- and working-class redneck bible-thumping hillbillies, and this guy lives right up to that standard... an anti-gun stance is more about socioeconomic and cultural snobbery than anything else.
 
In retrospect, Foob, you are right. On both counts. Rahter on all counts (school system) Mine's a private, fairly Conservative school, and I doubt the people in my class know what the Second Amendment says.
It's just nice to pretend that there is some common decency left in the world.
With more time to think over this, I think this instance was caused by post-tragedy panic. Anti-gun folks will someone with a gun as a threat, and, in the wake of a tragedy like VT, will try to eliminate that threat. And they will make mistakes. (like the Patriot Act)
 
Scheffler is obviously an idiot. He's dead right on the gun issue, and if he'd kept it at that, he might be in less trouble. But as it is, the "jews and blacks and atheists are the problem!" stance just kills it. People aren't going to listen to ANYTHING he says if they know he's a bigot. I wish he wasn't pro-gun, his loud mouth and stupidity make us look bad.
 
Pretty much how I was feeling, TreeSquid.

A modicum of respect along with keeping it to the gun issue would probably have resulted in him getting in no trouble...though of course it would likely also have resulted in him being ignored. Guess he's getting plenty of attention now!

And seriously, to reiterate: that whole thing about, "I've never cracked a single book since coming here, no really they're all in shrink wrap...so obviously you guys suck!" Classy. Real classy.

Nope, can't imagine why this joker was suspended. Musta been because he likes guns.
 
They see them as lower- and working-class redneck bible-thumping hillbillies, and this guy lives right up to that standard... an anti-gun stance is more about socioeconomic and cultural snobbery than anything else.
Click to expand...

And there is the Gun Control Act of 1968 in a nutshell. We (gun owners) gave it to them on a plate. This calls for a thread!

WildsoiwillAlaska
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top