Free floated barrel

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stan5677

New member
Am considering a weatherby vanguard as my next rifle. I know on the vanguards the barrels aren't free floated does this make any difference at all especially in a hunting situation?
 
They guarantee sub moa accuracy with good ammo.... to me, if it will shoot 1moa or less, I don't really care if the barrel is free floated or not on a hunting gun.
 
If you buy a Weatherby Vanguard and the barrel isn't floated, and you aren't happy with the accuracy, it's no big deal to remove the stock. Then use 320 grit sandpaper wrapped around a deep socket that will fit into the barrel channel and open it up till you like it.
 
does this make any difference at all especially in a hunting situation?
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It depends a lot on where you hunt. In parts of the arid Southwest where humidity is low and consistent probably not much. But if you live somewhere that sees extreme swings in temperature and humidity or if you travel to hunt where you see extreme changes in altitude it matters.

It's not about accuracy, it's about consistent point of impact. Wood is an organic material that used to be a living breathing organism. As temperature, humidity, and altitude change wood naturally expands and contracts. Nothing you can do will stop that.

If the barrel is not free floated the pressure on the barrel is constantly changing as atmospheric conditions change. It may well shoot MOA all the time. But the 1 MOA group could change by several inches as conditions change.

Free floating the barrel so it cannot touch the barrel as the wood expands and contracts may not make it any more accurate, but it will ensure it always hits in the same spot.

Glass bedding the other places where the stock contacts the action isolates the guns action from the unstable wood. The 2 steps combined will allow the wood to expand and contract without changing the pressure exerted on the action or barrel.

This is why I much prefer a quality synthetic stock. Just make the entire stock from stable synthetic material instead of using a thin layer between the wood and metal.
 
They guarantee sub moa accuracy with good ammo
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a 3 shot group at 100 yds using quality factory ammo.

Every vanguard/Mark V I've ever shot could do that--some better than that, some barely that. Weatherby cartridges are not like others so I don't think the same generalizations apply--hence why they generally are not free-floated. I've free-floated all the Weatherby's I've had--I would say for the thinner profile barrels in the 300 Weatherby on up I don't think the free-floating makes a marked difference--possible might even make it worse in some cases. YRMV
 
Why are accuracy guarantees limited to 3 shots?

What changes in the rifle across 3 shots?
 
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No, it makes no difference for hunting.

Target shooting and Hunting are almost diametrically opposed to each other.

As long as it shoots 1.5 MOA you are good out to 400 yards.
 
The more you shoot, generally, the bigger the group gets. Also you can have issues with barrel fouling buildup and barrel heating. Probably getting those guys shooting 20rnd groups starting with a dirty gun, then complaining to Weatherby and trying to send it in.
 
stagpanther said:
Last time I checked that was Weatherby's standard guarantee IIRC.
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That guarantee is also used across several rifles of different makes and models.

Why can't they shoot inside one MOA for 5, 10 or 20 consecutive shots 30 seconds apart?

What's different after 3 shots that makes the barrel change its line of fire direction relative to the line of sight as the bullet leaves the muzzle?
 
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Weatherby makes fine rifles. I had a mark V 300Wby. and a Vangard in 308Win. Never had any kind of a problem with either one. They use to come with a target to show how they shot from the factory.
 
What's different after 3 shots that makes the barrel change its line of fire direction relative to the line of sight as the bullet leaves the muzzle
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Not exactly sure--them's Weatherby's words, not mine. But if I had to guess--which is in fact what I'm doing--in a hunting situation rarely is the rifle shot in exactly the same way shot to shot--and perhaps some "wandering" of the barrel's "whip" characteristics limits repeatability of the bullet's journey out the muzzle?
 
...What's different after 3 shots that makes the barrel change its line of fire direction relative to the line of sight as the bullet leaves the muzzle?
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Of course Bart knows the answer, it’s a teaching moment. One difference is barrel temperature; for the first shot the barrel is cold, and obviously heats up with each shot. But the heating isn’t even from breach to muzzle, introducing uneven stresses to the steel. Depending on barrel quality, this can cause it to warp - changing the point of impact.

Too, as the barrel warps it may contact the stock - with different contact pressures at each shot. So the barrel vibrations will be effected, again increasing shot dispersion. What are others?



.
 
99% of the time, the receiver face ain't squared up to the barrel's tenon thread axis. When the barrel is tightened up, it's pressed harder at one place instead of evenly all the way around. As the barrel expands when it heats up, it presses hardest on the receiver face at that one place. That sets up a stress point and the barrel tends to wiggle more in that direction during barrel time evidenced by the shots stringing out in one direction.

Match rifles rarely have this issue because the Smith's smart enough to square up the receiver face before installing the barrel.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-.../receiver-facing-cutter-pilots-prod20449.aspx

If the barrel's not stress relieved properly, things get worse because it's still going to bend on a squared up receiver face as it gets hot.
 
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Statistics. Barrel temperature and fit are physical effects, but no matter how good they are, the numbers add up.
Another shot might go into the group, it might enlarge it. It can't shrink it.
I recently saw the statistics on long run averages and a 5 shot group will run a good bit larger than 3. Ten spreads out even more. I recall Bart talking about 20 shot groups because he shoots 200 point matches.

Which is why Weatherby and gunzine writers talk in threes.

Old time writers talked in tens. Yes, barrels and bullets are better now, but we don't fire as many shots, either.
 
Wow! Answers are all over on this one!

The Weatherby/Howa guns are good rifles in plastic stocks. I would expect it to hit it’s accuracy std on the range and in the field. I would expect zero impact do to weather/materials.

That said often these plastic molded stocks have poor shape and touch the barrel some. Some guys will try to free float this. That can ruin what ever bedding stability exists and open up groups....IME.

Shoot & enjoy!
 
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