FoxNews Video - Ammo Shortage

The current overreaction of the public is a sign of the times. Low quality information is not being vetted properly. Makes it easy to understand why people go off to live in a commune waiting for a space ship to come and get them. I am personally glad that the government is not talking about limiting food (just an example).
 
They are only telling a half truth.

This is why. The DHS claim for the large ammo contract is that the large ammunition contract saves taxpayers money so the government can purchase "training ammo" at cheaper prices.

When did cheap training ammo include hollow point defense rounds?

Isn't defense ammo at least 30 percent more expensive on the low end to about three times more expensive for high end hollow point ammo?

This is about like the slaughterer caressing the sheep while he slits it's throat.
 
They are only telling a half truth.

This is why. The DHS claim for the large ammo contract is that the large ammunition contract saves taxpayers money so the government can purchase "training ammo" at cheaper prices.

When did cheap training ammo include hollow point defense rounds?

Isn't defense ammo at least 30 percent more expensive on the low end to about three times more expensive for high end hollow point ammo?

This is about like the slaughterer caressing the sheep while he slits it's throat.
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I could see DHS practicing with hollowpoints. As the ancient Buddha once said: "nothing's too good for me if someone else is paying!"

The key factor I'd really like to see is what size were the orders in 2010, 2011, and 2012. If the orders aren't significantly bigger, than thats just government bureaucracy (should be taken to the woodshed on HPs vs. nonHP cost for practice, but that will never happen).
 
I think the real story isn't counting the number of rounds bought by the Federal Government, but instead looking at the increase in size of Federal Government agencies with police powers. That grew some 30% since the current administration took power. You might think that everyone who works for the Feds doesn't need a gun, but I'm sure you won't convince them of that. Sure we lowly citizens are buying as much ammo as we can afford when we can, because as Government increases in size, so does their ammo requirements. At least that's how I see it.
 
It's no different then the Military, you buy and practice with what you carry and shoot with. The best way to know your weapons work well with your ammo is to use the same for both. And buy buying all the same type of ammo then you are instituting an increase in production which helps the manufacturer lower it's costs of manufacturing allowing a better price.

I do see that cvc944 has a point, but it's less a point about government officials with police powers and more of a point that government is gust getting too big and into way to much of the State's rights. The police powers thing just comes along for the ride.

We need more States to stand up and fight for their own rights and push the feds back over the fence. And we need Congressmen that will back this and band with their States that they represent.
 
I think the real story isn't counting the number of rounds bought by the Federal Government, but instead looking at the increase in size of Federal Government agencies with police powers. That grew some 30% since the current administration took power. You might think that everyone who works for the Feds doesn't need a gun, but I'm sure you won't convince them of that. Sure we lowly citizens are buying as much ammo as we can afford when we can, because as Government increases in size, so does their ammo requirements. At least that's how I see it.
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CVC, I agree this is the real problem. We have what now 150,000 or more armed federal agents/employees? What is the number of troops deployed during the height of the Afghan war? This is of course IN ADDITION to all the local police of city, county and state levels.

Practically every dept seems to have its own armed agents and even SWAT teams: FDA, Educ, IRS, etc. in addition to the ones we would expect such as as Treasury, Justice, DEA, ATF.

Looks like that civilian defense force is approaching the size of the military, and probably gets a WHOLE lot more training rounds per person than the military or local police.
 
Something doesn't add up.

First, the local police departments around here are happy to practice with the cheapest ammo they can find. They don't need to burn up the expensive JHP stuff when they're just burning rounds down range. I don't think the DHS agencies do, either, and I doubt very much they were practicing in bulk with the premium spread a year or three ago.

Second, if the DHS IS practicing with their expensive carry ammo, then why is there none of the cheap stuff in any of the stores, or even at the distributors? I've been making the rounds of local gun shops. All in one geographic area, so for all I know they all get ammo from the same distributor, but none of them can even get ammo. They can't get Winchester USA. They can't get Federal American Eagle. They can't get Speer Lawman. They can't get Remington UMC. If the distributors don't have it and can't get it, that's not because the hoarders and the newbies are draining the supply out of the market. The supply is being sucked out before it even reaches the market.
 
You might think that everyone who works for the Feds doesn't need a gun, but I'm sure you won't convince them of that.
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You do know that this is actually a gross overstatement right? Just taking a wild stab at a guess I would put the percentage of Federal employees who are armed as part of their job at no greater then 30% of the total and that might be high. The Government is so huge and there are so many jobs positions, and most really are just drones, I work with a bunch of them.

With the sequester on you should see how empty the parking lot here get's on furlough days.
 
Funny but true story....

Years ago I watched a panel discussion on TV with a group of former US Atty Generals.
Richard Thornburgh, the former Gov of PA, told the group about a incident he had while AG.
An aide showed him a photo of a group wearing camo uniforms carrying high tech military weapons.
"Who are these guys?" AG Thornburgh asked. "Navy SEALs?", "US Marshals?".

No, the aide replied, they are from the US Bureau of Land Management.

:D
 
First, the local police departments around here are happy to practice with the cheapest ammo they can find. They don't need to burn up the expensive JHP stuff when they're just burning rounds down range. I don't think the DHS agencies do, either, and I doubt very much they were practicing in bulk with the premium spread a year or three ago.
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I can tell you with certainty that the FBI practices with the same hollowpoint ammo that they carry. It doesn't seem unreasonable that other Federal agencies would do the same.

If the distributors don't have it and can't get it, that's not because the hoarders and the newbies are draining the supply out of the market. The supply is being sucked out before it even reaches the market.
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Did you consider that there was only a limited amount of that premium defensive ammo in the pipeline to begin with, and that the "hoarders and newbies" did suck it out of the market, and the manufacturers just haven't been able to replace it in quantity yet? Premium SD ammo is gone off the shelves NOW, but back at the beginning of the shortage, the SD ammo was the only stuff I DID see on the shelves.

None of your observations in the local gun shops are good evidence for the government gobbling up the supply. If that had been case, the "good stuff" would have been the FIRST ammo to disappear, not the last.
 
If we were talking high powered precision rifles than by all means you would need to practice with the exact ammunition you will be using.

However aside from checking on the functioning characteristics of the gun, there is no practical reason why you would need to practice with defense ammo out of a handgun. The point of impact will change only slightly at those close ranges. When you consider the size of the target you are shooting at with a duty handgun the argument for training with hollow points is pretty pathetic.
 
If we were talking high powered precision rifles than by all means you would need to practice with the exact ammunition you will be using.

However aside from checking on the functioning characteristics of the gun, there is no practical reason why you would need to practice with defense ammo out of a handgun. The point of impact will change only slightly at those close ranges. When you consider the size of the target you are shooting at with a duty handgun the argument for training with hollow points is pretty pathetic.
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I'm not defending the practice - I'm just saying that it DOES happen, at least with the FBI. Whether it makes sense really isn't relevant.
 
You do know that this is actually a gross overstatement right? Just taking a wild stab at a guess I would put the percentage of Federal employees who are armed as part of their job at no greater then 30% of the total and that might be high.
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Only 30%? Good. I feel much better now knowing that only about one in three Feds are buying guns and ammo.
 
cvc944, if you read my previous posts you would see I mostly agree with you in principle. I think the Fed is way too big, I think the Fed is into way to much State business.

Like others I think they are burning way to much of our money, then because they can't get more out of us and get reelected, they just print more making what they haven't taken from me worth less.

But since I am retired Army, a defense contractor on military contracts and work closely with other Federal workers I simple know that they are not all armed. My "guess" was a guess, and if you would feel more comfortable I would almost feel inclined to try and find a more accurate number for you to ponder. But at this point I'll simply forgo that and leave it at a simple "You are wrong, check it yourself next time".
 
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