Found this on AR15.com

ninpoikkan

Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The act makes me sick.. but the story brought a tear to my eye.
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I read a story in the New York Journal News, Monday, November 8, 1999, on
page 3A, entitled "Vet's memorial fire believed intentional," by an unknown
staff writer. This is my reaction to that event. I am responsible for its
content. I hereby give my permission to print or post it anywhere you wish.

Veteran's Memorial Torched (and what it means to us)

In the early morning hours of Monday, November 8th, 1999, some of our
nation's children let us know what they think of our nation, this cradle of
liberty, this land of truth and justice. They stealthily surrounded a small
military memorial in a small town near Rochester, New York, they poured
flammable liquids on it, and they burned it to the ground. Let me repeat
that: they burned it to the ground.

In this nation, where we protect to the highest degree the right of all
citizens to make their feelings known, these children spoke. They spoke
with fire, and condemned their birthrights. This exercise of their freedom
of speech was crystal clear and should be understood by all. They
demonstrated their hatred of our nation, their nation, our heritage, our way
of life.

This morning, residents of the small hamlet of Richmond, NY came to the
charred remains in the center of their town to view with horrified eyes this
dishonor done to the memory of their fallen warriors, American fighting men
whose names and lives and deaths spanned the decades from the Civil War to
the Vietnam War. They were mostly silent, but the tears flowed from their
eyes as they viewed the carnage. Some brought flowers to place on the
smoldering ashes of what should have been an eternal tribute.

Two thousand, two hundred names were engraved in gold and ensconced in a
wooden gazebo, surrounded by flags. Twenty-two hundred men from this tiny
town who never came home to their wives, their children, their parents,
their families. Twenty-two hundred men who paid, in blood, the price of our
freedom. Twenty-two hundred heroes.

Those men did not ask to die, and most likely did not want to die, far from
home, in pain and suffering and calling for their mothers. They did not ask
to be the ones chosen to pay the ultimate price so that we would remain a
nation, free and strong. They did not ask to be heroes, or to have their
names remembered and their sacrifices honored.

Yet, in this nation, we honor those who have fallen so that we might breathe
the air of freedom, so that we might speak our minds, even so that we might
condemn the gifts given us. In this ultimate irony, their sacrifice has
provided the security and the liberty and even the network of laws that
protect those who put the torch to their memorial.

Thursday, November 11th, 1999, is Veteran's Day in the USA (Remembrance Day
in Canada). Some see it as a day off of work. Some look forward to an
extended weekend. In many cities and towns across America, there will be
parades, speeches, and they will be sparsely attended by those who remember.
Some snicker and make rude comments as Old Glory flutters by, carried by old
men in old and badly fitting uniforms.

There are some of us who do not see creaky old veterans in moth-ball
smelling uniforms. We see something else. We see fellow warriors who did
what was asked of them by their nation, whether in peacetime or in war. We
see the pride with which our National Ensign is held aloft, the precision of
the step, the solid thump of the boots on pavement of these military men.
We can still hear 'Reveille' first thing in the morning if we listen hard
enough. We can smell gunpowder in the air, and hear the sharp bark of
commands. We remember "Eyes Right!" as we Pass In Review. We know what it
feels like to stand at the position of attention and salute as the flag is
lowered gently and reverently at dusk. We are still proud to be called
patriots, and we don't think of it as a dirty word.

So, now we are under attack, but this time the attack comes from within.
This is not the anti-war sentiment of the 60's; at least the hippies
believed in something. This is something new, something truly ugly. This
is a war over nothing. Belief in nothing, trust in nothing, desire for
nothing. This is our children demonstrating their boredom, disgust, and
ennui, with us, with each other, with life in general.

We see it in the schools - Arkansas, Colorado, and so on. We see it in the
black trenchcoats, the painted faces, the carefully-cultivated disgust with
life and love of destruction. We blame the movies, guns, the government,
cults, and anything else we can think of except ourselves. We don't
understand our children, and they don't understand us. They don't like our
culture, they don't like our values, and they don't even like each other.
How could we have raised a generation of children so damaged? I don't
pretend to have the answer, but I must pose the question: how do we reclaim
our children?

This burning of a small veteran's memorial in a small town in New York is
not the end of the world. It can be rebuilt. The men who died and are
remembered can continue to be honored, their names freshly engraved in brass
and gold. We can hold a ceremony, and pray that it does not happen again.
We can catch the vandals responsible and punish them, or try to teach them
why what they did was so wrong.

But this is a symbol, in my mind, of what is wrong, powerfully wrong, with
our nation. When will we turn to our children and take them and love them
and show them that there is something worth believing in, that the strength
of a free nation is based on the faith its citizens have in it? When will
we stop pretending that we have no Creator, that we are not charged with the
responsibility of passing faith in that Creator on to our progeny? When
will we be willing to sacrifice that SUV in the driveway or that 401(k) in
the stock market for our family's sake?

So today, a small veteran's memorial was burned to the ground. Twenty-two
hundred names lie in the ashes, they have fallen again. But as they once
paid with their blood for the future of our nation, let them be called forth
to serve us once more. Sound the bugles! Let the desecration of their
memorial be the reminder that we all need to hear, the wake-up call for
America and our posterity. Let them lie in the ashes and make us horrified
and ashamed that we have let things get this far. And then let us restore
their names, restore their honor, and honor them a second time by reclaiming
our families, as we know we must. If you believe that they did not die in
vain in wars dimly remembered, then don't let their memories die in vain
now.

And if you want to do something about this particular memorial, then here is
the information you need. You know what to do.

Town of Richmond
20 East Main Street
PO Box 145
Honeoye, NY 14471
716-229-5757
FAX-229-5114[/quote]

I just called the number. As of yet, they are not accepting any donations for the replacement of the monument. That is pending the finalization of the investigation. I left my work number with the town clerk, and they will notify me when/if they decide to accept donations. Once I hear from them, I will post the information here so that any who wish to do so may contribute.

Scott
Sua Sponte

Join C.A.N.
 
I hope they can replace it in a nice piece of Adarondek granite this time. I don't know what I wish on the little terdballthat did the deed (unusual for me, I have a vicious vindicitve streak -), perhaps they should spend the rest of their lives working in a VA hospital . . . though they're marginally fit for bedpan duty, IMHO. M2
 
I'm apalled, and outraged.. and say "ditto" to Dennis...

The mobile VietNam memorial will be in Mesa this week, and already have plans to take the kids to teach them of the sacrifice those who's names are on it made.

God, save this country from itself!

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
I know what punishment I'd inflict on the little dirtbags: it involves some Birchwood-Casey Super Scrubber, a .50 phosphor bronze brush, and their genitals.

I called the Richmond town office and spoke with a very nice older lady. Gave my address and phone number, a promise to spread the word far and wide, and a donation pledge when they have their rebuild plan in place. She asked if I had some connection with veterans. I said not really, I was in the AF for five years, but that's it. I'm just outraged at this act, and so are countless others. She said the council has been kept busy answering phones ever since the crime occurred; people all over the country are calling on this.

Maybe when they get the rebuild going, I'll beg for some time off and go help...


------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
----------
Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is a war over nothing. Belief in nothing, trust in nothing, desire for nothing. This is our children demonstrating their boredom, disgust, and ennui, with us, with each other, with life in general.[/quote]

And, still, The Band Played On.

When children are taught that nothing but comfort and distraction has value, they grow up valueless. Brief moment of silence while we reflect on the forces in this country that argue for increased government intervention in the raising of our children. Their legacy is in the opening post of this thread.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Bring back the chain gangs now! If you commit adult crime; you must suffer adult punishment. If the offenders are caught let them spend a day for each name on that memorial at hard labor.

At one time, in the Arkansas Prison System, inmates were beaten with leather straps on their first day to "set the tone" and "get the heart right". Any infraction thereafter was paid for with subsequent whippings. When the time came to make shoes or pick cotton, if the daily quota was not met, a whipping would result. There is at least one documented case of a repeat offender committing suicide to keep from going back to the penitentiary in Arkansas.

The point of this is it's time to revisit those methods. I do not care what motivated these youths. I do not care about their self-esteem. I am not concerned with their remorse if caught. Forgiveness does not negate consequences. I do care, however, that they weighed the costs against the benefits and the costs were lacking. Conditions such as those mentioned above would be tailor-made for these miscreants. They would think twice before doing it again and those with the inclination to commit similar offenses might think twice before going through with it. Above all, it would be a sincere way to express to our Veterans that we appreciate what they did.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
I think this pretty much sums up the attitude and mentallity of a small percentage of the youth in the U.S.A today. It will be interesting to see if their conscience will prevail.

- Ron V.
Quite angry

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This action is outragious and should have been given National news coverage. Where was CNN, ABC, CBS, ETC. Shame on them for their lack of compassion to the families of our war heroes.

I'm not a Veteran, but my Dad, Uncle, Brother-inlaw, and fellow workers are and I thank them for protecting my freedom.

Send a Veteran a card this Veterans Day. Let them know you care and appreciate what they did for us.
 
I'm not a veteran, neither is my dad. You have to go back to my great grandfather to find a vet in my family, but this is TOO FAR.

These kids (and unfortunately, I'm sure they are kids, maybe not much younger than I am) should build the new memorial with hand tools. Every time they screw up, they do it again until it's right. A qualified mason, monument maker, stone cutters, carvers etc. would supervise, their time paid for by fines against the kids' parents. If it was one kid, or it's hot or cold out, too damn bad. Part of understanding why those veterans have earned the respect and not the disgust of their fellow man includes knowing what it feels like to face a horrible job and do it simply because it must be done. This would be a decent start, anyway, and more educational than a wire brush to the testes (though that would remain a reserve option, just in case.)

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
This brought tears to my eyes and literally made me sick. I think you all will understand if I say nothing more.
 
So much for SOME of today's youth. Let's wait and see what today's justice system does about it. After all they might have just been exercising their First Amendment rights.
As a veteran I have never wanted anything for my self, but I know very well the sacrifice made by the willing and the unwilling heroes of this nation. Their memory can never be honored enough. As a nation we cannot tolerate desecration of their memorials.
The pity of this situation is that this act was commited by our next generation of military men.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Friends,

This is sad.....

I am Outraged, Deeply touched and have a knot in the pit of my stomach. It is a sad fact some of our next generation has no concept of the sacrifice previous generations made for them.

We can help rebuild the memorial. Their memory will live on. But what of the future?

Dan
NY C.A.N. Op
dtucker@schonbek.com
 
Perhaps, we need to reintroduce FLOGGING as punishment for crimes of this type. Say 6 strokes with a rattan cane across the bare buttox, "laid on strong" for the first offence. And No, I don't think it would be cruel or unusual punishment for this type of crime, the wanton destruction of their and our history.

I am outraged by the action of those cretins. Who knows what they will destroy because they are bored next time. A vacant building, a business closed for the day or a home with the family inside.

Keep us posted, I will give to help rebuild their monument and I'd even buy the rattan canes needed for flogging.

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Now don't get me wrong BUT why should anyone here be apalled, and outraged at this ?
Take into account gangs shooting gangs(over "their" turf), drive by shootings, Littleton, the general degradation of youth today & the "I'm what matters - Who cares?" attitude of said youth....
Shouldn't something like this be expected of the brainless little sh#ts ?
I agree with Public Humiliation, as in the Flogging of backsides in general viewing ! :)
But of course the poor mis-understood crims to be CAN'T be held for their actions can they... :(
VOTE & change the LAW !
Hell, change a whole stack of them while yer at it & include some gun ones too. ;)

------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
Alternate E-mail
HS2000@ausi.com
 
Guys, this is NOTHING to do with freedom of expression. It's at best vandalism, and at worst treason.

Remember the flag-burning hoo-hah earlier this year? The courts said "As long as it's YOUR flag, you can burn it, wipe your ass with it, strangle a vet with it, or whatever." (not in so many words, but you get the drift).

If those little s***bags had paid for the memorial, fine. They didn't. They destroyed something that wasn't theirs.

The First ain't in it.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
----------
Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
to all....
I am a VN vet, 67-68 101st ABN... and as I raised my daughter & son...

I made every effort to instill in them the understanding that this freedom they enjoy does not come without a price.....

I didn't believe that I did too badly.....

but one day last year, after my daughter had turned 23 and my son 21 (b-days are close together) my son asked "sometimes I just don't understand why you are so high on this country.... all I see is a corrupt government and so on...is there anything that you can tell me or show me that explains why you feel that way"..........

it seems that all the airshows, visiting memorials, military parades and the fact that I had spent so many years in the reserves did not sink in.......

so I took them to Ft. Levenworth one weekend, while I was still teaching a NBC class up there....
it was a fairly chilly day and the river valley was still enshrouded with fog....

I walked them up to the top of a little hill... and as the fog thinned...

all I did was raise my arm point toward the bottom.............

toward the Fort's Cemetery and the row upon row of headstones that (no joke) glistened in the light and the thin fog.......

this cemetery has been here since around 1849 and is where I will lay someday with about a half-dozen of those buddies that didn't make it....


I didn’t have to say another word…. As I took them down to visit my old friends… my children understood

The moral of this is…. You can’t just tell them, you have to tell them and then show them……

And nothing strikes at the crux of the question that my son asked more deeply…than the rows of white stones……


I only feel sorrow for those children in NY

Maybe having to spent time providing maintenance at a military cemetery would work better than any physical punishment……


Your thoughts????


[This message has been edited by CHEMNCO917 (edited November 10, 1999).]
 
Chem, you might have reminded your kids that you didn't fight to protect the government, but to protect the Constitution.

They're right about the lying, corrupt smegheads in Washington. But that's not what it's about.

It's about your *country*, not the imbeciles trying to destroy it.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
----------
Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
yeah... you're right.... it sounds like I didn't tell them that.... but I did..... I think they knew how I felt because the sign above my desk at work used to say "I love my country....but fear my government"... and then the government wrecked my business and I now have to work for someone else, so the sign came down..... I also made sure that they had copies of the Declaration of Independence, the Constituion, the Bill of Rights and the various other documents...... they where not being taught about them in high school at that time. I think they also got the jist of how we feel when I read the the oath I(we) took upon entering the service (and every time we re-uped) to them.....
 
UPDATE:

I just received a call from a fellow named Ed Jackson in New York. He says the perp has been caught and is currently sitting in the county jail. Ed said, without going into detail, that there is absolutely no doubt about this person's guilt.

A committee has been established for the rebuild. Their mailing address is:

Gazebo Task Force
PO Box 405
Honeoye, NY 14471

I'm sending a letter tomorrow asking about donations and hands-on help.

------------------
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
----------
Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
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