Former and currently active duty members, I've got a question.

[jhenry]

U.S. Military=No Guns Allowed. Going into the Military will nullify most of your Constitutional Rights.

Utterly false.

You can keep you personally owned firearms in the armory. The armorer playing with other folks guns is a fast way to an Article 15 or more if damage occurs. Everything in that armory is inventoried at each shift to include the POFs. That being said, a good trigger lock or case is still a good idea as cheap insurance. Best of luck.

 

[geetarman]

It must have been in an earlier life

I was stationed on a DDG was assigned to Operations. I asked the ops boss if I could buy a pistol and keep it on board.

He said it would not be a problem. I bought a Colt Sports Woodsman and brought it aboard and when I needed to store it, the ops boss would lock it up in his safe.

If I was going ashore and wanted to shoot, he let me take it and when I returned to the ship, I would clean it in CIC and take it down to his stateroom and he would lock it up.

I know it was a long time ago ( mid sixties ) but I had no problems.

Geetarman

 

[globemaster3]

Take this FWIW from a currently-serving, 17-year guy.

First, as has been mentioned, don't even bother during basic at Lackland and Intel tech school which I think is still at Goodfellow.

Each base has slightly differing rules over their dorms. Most often, Amn-SrA are forced to live in the dorms unless married. Once you hit SrA, in most cases you can get on a list to move off base depending on occupancy rates in the dorms. Most bases do NOT allow you to store weapons in the dorms. In these cases, your only choices are to store in the armory, or make other arrangements, most of which have been mentioned. If you choose to store in the armory, you will be required to fill out a form which contains the make/model/serial #/etc of your weapons and have it signed by your CC. This serves as accountability for the weapons.

As for leaving the dorms and getting into base housing if you are married, you can keep your weapons in your base house. As the military has privatized housing, the rules have varied from base to base. In non-privatized housing, I've been required to have the same form filled out/signed by my commander as if in the armory. In privatized housing, that has not been required.

In terms of living off base, I have never been required to report my firearms to the base, unless I intended to bring them on base to shoot skeet/trap/hunt. Army bases are notorious for this and have the same form requiring weapons information that must be signed by your commander and kept on file in the provost marshall's office. I mention that as some intel folks can find themselves in joint billets rather quick, or if you ever have a chance to hunt an Army base.

As for shooting opportunities on base with the CATM folks, my impression is the days of plentiful ammo and extra opportunties to shoot are over. I am required to maintain currency on the M9, and as such asked my unit training manager to get a training date for me to check my currency. I showed for the class, and was promptly told that if I wasn't in the que to deploy near term, they'd be happy to let me take the classroom portion, but they are under guidance to not allow non-immediately-deploying to shoot the course of fire due.

And as for

U.S. Military=No Guns Allowed. Going into the Military will nullify most of your Constitutional Rights.

I'm just not sure I can adress that in a civil manner, but suffice to say you are utterly wrong and obviously uninformed.

 

[Idahoser]

Three of the USAF bases I was stationed at had Rod & Gun clubs,,,
This was back in the dark ages though,,,

Hahn closed in the early '90s . They didn't have a R&G club there in the early '80s nor early '90s. We enjoyed Mainz-Kastel, Ramstein and another one that will come to me... Darmstadt maybe?

It's the Air Force my friend,,,
They don't have combat infantry.

in Korea I saw a USAF cop with "Ranger" over his stripes.

Each member of the USAF has an allotment of ammo they can use to keep proficient,,,
It's just that 99% of the Airmen don't want to use their allotment,,,
Just contact the range-master and say,,,
"I want to learn how to shoot."

They are more than happy to provide training,,,
Uncle Sugar supplies the gun & ammo.

I seriously doubt this is true, unless you're in something like security forces or law enforcement. If so they kept it a good secret. I had to get a job that required pistol before I was allowed to qualify on that.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Until you "win the lottery" (selection methods depend on the base), you'll have to live in a Dormitory. In some cases: Even if you're married, you'll still be living in on-base housing ("family housing").

Your weapons must be one of three places, while you're in the dorms: 1. In the armory. 2. With a friend (off base, or family housing). 3. Back home (parents, brother, sister, whatever).

During my time in Florida, I had one rifle and one handgun with me, at any given time. Everything else was "back home", spread around my family. (I told them to shoot the 'snot' out of them, while I was gone. ...Better that they get used, than sit around rusting.)

My experience with a base armory can be found in a prior discussion.

Short version:
The SPs messed around with my stuff, and caused some minor damage.
In addition, they failed to log the weapons in properly, and I had to fight to get them back. My commander and first sergeant saved the day.
There are storage recommendations at the bottom of that post.

I thought the USAF PJ's (para jumpers) were combat oriented or am I mistakened?

PJs (ParaRescuemen) are not trained to be offensive. They are trained to rescue their target (pilot, civilian, whatever), provide any necessary medical care, and get them to safety. They are trained to survive and evade, rather than engage; should their rescue vehicle get destroyed, fail to make the pick-up, or have to take only their target and leave the PJ behind. Their #1 priority is saving the life of, and evacuation of, their target. Priority #2 is survival, evasion, and escape; should they be left behind. No other job in the military comes as close to fitting the phrase "An Army of One", than that of PJs. More than anything else, PJs are rescue and survival oriented.

Combat Controllers, however, are attached to Army units. They are definitely combat oriented, but their job is not an infantry role. Their job is to coordinate with air traffic (from the ground) for intel, targeting, evac, and anything else possible.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I seriously doubt this is true, unless you're in something like security forces or law enforcement. If so they kept it a good secret. I had to get a job that required pistol before I was allowed to qualify on that.

I was qualified on the M9 while holding a rank that was specifically forbidden from carrying the weapon (Group/Wing policy). Get to know your mobility guys (they're usually the ones in charge of weapons qualification). Start dropping hints. Start asking the mall ninjas running the range if they might have some 9x19mm ammo that will have to be "destroyed" any time soon.
Or... just start asking your unit outright if you can get into the next opening for M9 qualification.

Each unit usually has slots reserved on a rotating schedule, for weapons qual. Often, not all the slots are needed. Rather than sending some one to qualify two months in a row, they might opt to send some one interested in the training, instead.


Getting qualified early was actually a very good thing for me (though very unlikely to be of any benefit for an intel job). When we changed our SOP during OIF, the M9 became our only weapon for flight duty (in place of the M4). Since only two of us were qualified..... I got to go on a few flights I never would have had a chance at, otherwise. (I was out-ranked, but not out-experienced; so they let the rank issue slide.) Once a few more people got qualified, I was stuck on the ground again. ...But it was good while it lasted.

 

[mehavey]

Voir Dire: Army/USAF for 34 years

Bottom Line:
Barracks -- No guns (no secure storage). Store at/check in/out at armory or w/ Provost Marshal (Never had a problem)

On-Base Housing: Register firearms w/ Provost. Then you are free to keep weapons in quarters/move them on-off base as long as cased/in the trunk.

Of-Base Housing: Generally no restrictions.

All of the above assumes compliance w/ state laws and (most always) compliant post/base commanders.

 

[aarondhgraham]

Hello Idahoser,,,

Hahn closed in the early '90s . They didn't have a R&G club there in the early '80s nor early '90s.

Read my entire post again,,,
I was in from 1970-1978.

I was at Hahn from 1971 to 1973,,,
We had a rollicking R&G club.

I seriously doubt this is true, unless you're in something like security forces or law enforcement. If so they kept it a good secret. I had to get a job that required pistol before I was allowed to qualify on that.

Honestly man, did you just call me a liar?
You should have bought the range-master a beer or two.

It ain't no biggie one way or the other,,,
Nothing is more futile than an internet flame war.

I decline to get into one with you,,,
But remember I was talking about 30+ years ago,,,
A lot of things have changed since the Vietnam era military I was in.

Aarond

 

[wyome]

22 yr AF vet, just had my retirement ceremony last month.
My experience is the same as globemaster3's, and I was never hassled for firearms ownership. If I had been stationed in other states/countries then you gotta comply by their rules. While I lived in the dorms my guns and bow were kept at the base armory and were available 24/7. Just had to transport them in the trunk in a locked case, and my destination had to be either the base gun club, a base residence, or off base. Couldn't keep em in the car and go to the BX for show and tell.

The three times I lived in base housing I had to provide a list of weapons maintained at the residence to the unit's 1st Sgt, which were passed on to the security forces folks...because they really want to know that if they have to respond to a domestic at your address that they are not walking into armory.

Did 15 yrs as an Intel person...couple different career fields for intel.
Did get to deploy several times as intel, and like every other person deployed you need to be weapons qualified. Whether or not you need to use your weapon varies greatly with your deployed duty assignment.

 

[Idahoser]

Honestly man, did you just call me a liar?

heck no man, I was assuming you were there at some other time, I was just letting you know they didn't still have one when I was there. no insult intended, sorry you took it that way. Same with the ammo stuff. Not where/when I was, unless they were keeping it a secret.

Oh wait, I know what I did wrong.


there, better?

 

[SPEMack618]

I would say that the PJs are definintly on my "don't mess with" list as far as combat types go. They are by far the most small arms proficient Air Force personnel that I ever encountered.

Hell, Pops was a PJ before anyone ever thought of wearing a red beret, and has more ribbons than Patton.

 

[WC145]

The position I'm slated for is Intel so I'm not going to be combat infantry.

I thought the USAF PJ's (para jumpers) were combat oriented or am I mistakened?

USAF "combat infantry" rolleyes reduced to their primary purposes-

PJ - Primarily SAR/medic operating in hostile environments
CCT - Primarily ATC for airfields/assault zones in hostile enviroments
TACP - Primarly control CAS/artillery in the field and advise on best use of available air assets
Combat Weather -

CCT, TACP, and Combat Weather are specialized boots on the ground combat troops that work with all branches of our military as well as our allies to bring the capabilities and expertise of the USAF to the battlefied. PJ are combat medics taken to the Nth degree and go anywhere they're needed anytime they're needed. All are more than capable of holding their own on the battlefield with any other combat troops out there and do, every day.


Personally owned weapons are not impossible, you just have to follow the rules, like everything else in the military.
The "security shoots your guns" thing is total BS, I was a SP and armorer in the early 80's and nobody could get away with that kind of crap back then, let alone now.

 

[hermannr]

I spent 8 years in the Army, personal firearms were strictly a command thing. Each command had their own rules, and within the command, individual sections may have a more stringent set of rules, or not.

My answer was to leave my personal arms at my HOR, join the unit's compitition team, and shoot their guns and their ammo. (everything from air rifle, and compitition 22 pistols (Hammerlie and High Standard), and Hammerlie 22 rifles, we also shot M14, M16, FAL, M60, a H&K machine pistol (don't remember the model number) German heavy machine gun (also don't remember the model number) I got my German shooting medal that way. Real fun, and a whole lot less expensive than using your own weapons and ammo. Oh yes, they paid for the membership to the local civilan gun club too. (60's-70's)

Being Signal Corp my opportunities to shoot would have been very limited if I had not been a member of the Brigade's compitition Rifle and Pistol team.

 

[Sigasaurus Rex]

If you are going into any Intel career, you'll most likely be going to Tech School at Goodfellow AFB. That's also where I went to the Fire Academy. There was supposedly an indoor range in San Angelo when I was there. A couple of us went looking for it and found an abandoned building at the address. This was four years ago, so there might be someplace to shoot there now, but I'm not sure. Have fun at Goodfellow, just don't drink too much down at Graham's

 

[armsmaster270]

When I was in the Coast Guard in New Orleans in the 60's I was married and lived off base. I was allowed to check out a 1911 from the HQ armory with 2 boxes of ball ammo for a week for going to the range. I did this quite a few times. However times change.

 

[youngunz4life]

U.S. Military=No Guns Allowed. Going into the Military will nullify most of your Constitutional Rights.

I second that and for someone who served active 4yrs army, I can atest to the fact that the ones you have, you might feel like a prisoner trying to exercise said rights if it ever comes up.

After though, I can pretty much do anything while common folk complain since they don't really have a clue how easy it is. Not only that, Veterans Affairs Actually really cares about you which is a huge bonus once you get out.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Going into the Military will nullify most of your Constitutional Rights.

I fail to see how this happens. You sign a contract and you swear to obey the rules. You can do anything in the military that you can do in civilian life.

First Amendment:
Want to protest at a political rally? Go ahead, just do not do it in Uniform, of if you get arrested, don't identify yourself as Airman Jonathan Schmucketely, Intelligence Specialist.

Second Amendment:
They do not say you can not have guns, they say you must obey the rules in order to have a gun. (Make believe you are in NYC, same thing, different rules.)

Third Amendment:
You'll be staying in a tent before this gets broken

Fourth Amendment:
They still need a search warrant. Also, when you enter a military compound you will see a sign that says you are subject to search. (Dorm inspections are not covered by the fourth amendment, because they are conducted for health and welfare reasons.)

Fifth Amendment:
You have the right to remain silent, and in most cases I would advise you to do so and request a lawyer.

So on, so fourth....

 

[GM-GUY]

Kimio,

1st - GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!

2nd - What intel position are you slated for? I was an Analyst back in the late 80's. You are probably headed for Goodfellow AFB in San Angelo, correct?

If you are married, off base housing, CONUS is a snap. Easier to keep the economy around the bases up if everyone goes off base at night. If you are not, it could get tricky as dorms were built for a reason.

 

[meatgrinder42]

U.S. Military=No Guns Allowed. Going into the Military will nullify most of your Constitutional Rights.

No good way to put what I want to say so I won't... So I'll just say the censored part. Just because you had a poor experience in the military doesn't mean you can fire off ridiculous comments like that.

USMC 0311

I had my Wingmaster in the armory until I deployed, then I had it sent back to my parents. They just tack down your name, the weapon's make, model, serial number etc. etc.... think of it like registering your car on base except it's going to be a little harder.... Good luck man!

 

[overkill0084]

I was in from 1970 to 1978,,,
People have enlisted and retired with 30 years since I got out.

I'm one of them (84 to 06) I'm not questioning your veracity. I'm just saying that I've never heard of the ammo allotment. Had I known, I might have hit the Press-to-Test on that issue. These days, I'd be surprised if most CATM shops have much more than the ammo needed to meet their training class load.
The only guns I spent much time with were the 20 mm's in the aircraft.