Form 4473?
- Thread starter sinear
- Start date
XavierBreath
New member
Exactly.
Since a social security number is not required on a 4473, just a fake ID with a name known to have no record will suffice. Some states do not even put a ss# on their driver's licenses. The ID verification part of the 4473 that the dealer fills out on page two is not part of the info given to NICS; it would only be checked in a BATFE audit of the dealer's records. Not sure what part date of birth (DOB) and place of birth play in the NICS checks. They may have to match an assumed name? It's possible the transaction may be delayed or denied? There are ways to prevent use of fake IDs: retinal scans, DNA testing, and an outright ban of guns come to mind. Or no more 4473 forms!
Not to mention the fact I thought the young clerk was screwing with me when I bought my first gun and had to fill out my first 4473. I thought that nobody could be stupid enough to make a document like that for official use. They had to convince me that that was the real document. They all agreed with me that it was idiotic the way they are. In ND they stoped putting SS# on DL because of the skyrocketing problem of identity theft.
What you are proposing is using the SSN as a national ID number and anyone desiring to purchase a firearm would be required to be registered with the government beforehand. If not on file with a valid SSN, a person would be prevented from buying a firearm through a licensed dealer. This violates a person's right to privacy as well as the Second Amendment.
The same thing that prevents you from killing your neighbor. It is against the law. The law against murder does not prevent you from killing someone just as the law on filling out a 4473 honestly doesn't prevent you from lying.
progunner1957
Moderator
The purpose of the 4473 and the NICS is not to keep criminals from buying guns. The puropse of both is to make it possible for "The Government" to compile a database of who owns what firearms, plain and simple.
If that were not the case, why are the freedom-hating Demosocialist gun grabbers so obsessed with outlawing gun shows and private sales? As someone else pointed out, the 4473 and NICS are easy to defeat; all that is required is a fradulent ID, which is relatively easy to obtain.
We all know what registration is a precursor to - confiscation. All it will take is for the Demosocialists to win the White House and a majority in congress.
If that were not the case, why are the freedom-hating Demosocialist gun grabbers so obsessed with outlawing gun shows and private sales? As someone else pointed out, the 4473 and NICS are easy to defeat; all that is required is a fradulent ID, which is relatively easy to obtain.
We all know what registration is a precursor to - confiscation. All it will take is for the Demosocialists to win the White House and a majority in congress.
Because it is a federal felony to do so. Many things are illegal, and that stops most people from doing it.
And honestly, it is things like this, 'here is how easy it is to buy a gun illegally so the government doesn't know you own guns' is what gives us law-abiding gun owners a bad name.
And honestly, it is things like this, 'here is how easy it is to buy a gun illegally so the government doesn't know you own guns' is what gives us law-abiding gun owners a bad name.
perception
New member
How true.
Flawed premise; worse purpose
"What prevents somone from using a fake SSN and fake name on the form and then presenting a fake DL with that info?
First, photo ID is required. While hardly impossible, it is a higher order of difficulty.
Second, the SSN is NOT required. I routinely write "REFUSED" or IRRELEVENT" on the 4473 and have never been denied.
"I'm thinking that the SSN and name would have to match up in the NIBC database like on credit card application."
Then your thinking is wrong. See above.
As for fake ID; illegals use them all the time to get DL's and benefits. So just what IS your purpose with this thread? Trolling for evidence that the anti-gunners can use?
"What prevents somone from using a fake SSN and fake name on the form and then presenting a fake DL with that info?
First, photo ID is required. While hardly impossible, it is a higher order of difficulty.
Second, the SSN is NOT required. I routinely write "REFUSED" or IRRELEVENT" on the 4473 and have never been denied.
"I'm thinking that the SSN and name would have to match up in the NIBC database like on credit card application."
Then your thinking is wrong. See above.
As for fake ID; illegals use them all the time to get DL's and benefits. So just what IS your purpose with this thread? Trolling for evidence that the anti-gunners can use?
22-rimfire
New member
Where I live, I am told that the sheriff's department will not process a NICs if there is no social security number listed. Prior to the NICs check, there was a state waiting period of 7-days for all handgun sales from dealers. They also require finger prints (thumbs) on each and every NICs check.
It is illegal to post incorrect information on the Federal form 4473. Yes, that means that sometimes only honest people complete the form correctly. Can't say anything about forged IDs, social security numbers etc., but the bad guys usually don't fill out the 4473 anyway. Why take the chance?
It is illegal to post incorrect information on the Federal form 4473. Yes, that means that sometimes only honest people complete the form correctly. Can't say anything about forged IDs, social security numbers etc., but the bad guys usually don't fill out the 4473 anyway. Why take the chance?
Instead of accepting hearsay,
why not get the actual facts?
"I am told that the sheriff's department will not process a NICs if there is no social security number listed."
Never mind what you are "told;" try reading the actual form. It expressly states that provision of the SSN is - and this is quoted directly from the one in front of me:
"Optional , but will help prevent misidentification."
What part of "optional" do neither you nor your sheriff's department (allegedly) not comprehend?
why not get the actual facts?
"I am told that the sheriff's department will not process a NICs if there is no social security number listed."
Never mind what you are "told;" try reading the actual form. It expressly states that provision of the SSN is - and this is quoted directly from the one in front of me:
"Optional , but will help prevent misidentification."
What part of "optional" do neither you nor your sheriff's department (allegedly) not comprehend?
Theres a difference. Really gets me when people take something and warp it to use as an insult, though perhaps my meaning wasn't very clear. I don't want the government to keep tabs on what I have and where it goes. I simply do not trust the feds, especially in light of current events.
Hkmp5sd,
The only problem with that statement is it's basically the same TYPE of statement made to the US citizens when SSI was implemented. "THIS NUMBER WILL NEVER BE USED AS NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION"
Didn't quite work out that way, did it?
Number 6,
Probably the same thing MOST sheriff's departments DON'T UNDERSTAND about the 'shall not be infringed' in the second amendment... Geez, what a surprise!
22-rimfire,
You indicate that you live in Tennessee. In this state, the TICS check is handled by the TBI in Nashville, and your local sheriff's department has nothing to do with it. The TBI most certainly will process a TICS check w/o a SSIN; I do dozens of them every week.
Whether intentionally or due to his ignorance, your FFL lied to you.
You indicate that you live in Tennessee. In this state, the TICS check is handled by the TBI in Nashville, and your local sheriff's department has nothing to do with it. The TBI most certainly will process a TICS check w/o a SSIN; I do dozens of them every week.
Whether intentionally or due to his ignorance, your FFL lied to you.
Right ... so some ex-con now wanting a gun to kill/rob/rape someone with is now going to stop and go "wow, I don't want to get in trouble for lying on Form 4473!"
Of course, if we banned gun shows and private sales then the BGs really wouldn't be able to buy guns, just like they can't buy drugs now.
Of course, I still wouldn't try it ... my luck the random name I picked would be that of some wanted fugitive ...
BTW, I've never provided a SSN on a 4473 and never had any problem getting approved.
