Form 4473 Revised To Include “Non-Binary” Gender Option

Does anyone know if this draft of the changes has been approved and, if so, when the new 4473 will be implemented?

I noticed an interesting comment at the end of the article:

Hmm… So people who can’t figure out if they’re male or female are free to purchase a firearm without picking one or the other. What about people who can’t figure out if they’re black or white?
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Good point. The choices under "Race" are
  • American Indian or Alaskan Native
  • Asian
  • Black or African American
  • Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
  • White
There's no option for "Mixed race." If someone has one parent who is 100% white ancestry and the other parent is 100% Black/African ancestry, they are 50/50 -- mixed race, or hybrid. If there's no choice for "Mixed Race," should that person self-identify on the 4473 as White, or as Black or African American? If he/she says "White," could he/she be prosecuted for perjury? Is that any more (or less) of a lie than if that person had checked the box for Black or African American?

Was President Obama Black, White, or Gray?
 
Wow!

Following up on my post above, I called the number provided for comments in the article. The woman who took my call said the BATFE cannot add another option for race, because those categories come from the Office of Management and Budget, and all federal agencies that collect such data must use the same, standard categories. The woman told me that people of mixed race can "self-identify" (her words -- which happen to be the same way I would describe it) as either Black or White ... or they can check both.

I wonder how many FFLs and how many BATFE field agents know that?
 
The operative point here is not what the box says (or means) but that what you put on the form MUST MATCH what is on the ID(s) you supply or you can't buy the gun.

One box I do miss is the "Other" box in the race block. Always enjoyed checking "other" and in the black writing "HUMAN" for race. :D
 
The reason the OMB controls this is because of the Paperwork Reduction Act. OMB is required by Congressional act to approve the forms, to account for the cost of forms, and do things like constrain runaway form fields and excess and inconsistent field options. Notice the OMB number in the upper right corner of 4473.
 
Non-binary means it's analogue. What do you suppose the unelected civil servants at the ATF are smoking now?
The new 4473 is also defacto firearm registration.
 
How is it more a de facto registration than the version we use today?
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If you question this, note that after a high profile shooting the FBI and news media know within an hour where the gun was sold and to who. You don't get that from leafing through old 4473s at a desk, that comes from computers. It is de facto registration, even though law enforcement is prohibited by law from compiling a database of firearms sales for gun registration. Years ago, my brother had some firearms stolen and reported them to the CA DOJ. The person he spoke with asked him his personal information, then what type of firearm was stolen, then proceeded to tell him where the guns were bought, the date of purchase, and the serial numbers.
 
Scorch said:
If you question this, note that after a high profile shooting the FBI and news media know within an hour where the gun was sold and to who. You don't get that from leafing through old 4473s at a desk, that comes from computers. It is de facto registration, even though law enforcement is prohibited by law from compiling a database of firearms sales for gun registration.
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And my question was a response to T. O'Heir's statement that

T. O'Heir said:
The new 4473 is also defacto firearm registration.
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I asked:

Aguila Blanca said:
How is it more a de facto registration than the version we use today?
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I didn't dispute that the 4473 can be used as a de facto registration. I asked how the proposed new version would be any more so.
 
Aguila Blanca
There's no option for "Mixed race."
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Of course not....read the instructions right next to the word "Race".;)



If someone has one parent who is 100% white ancestry and the other parent is 100% Black/African ancestry, they are 50/50 -- mixed race, or hybrid. If there's no choice for "Mixed Race," should that person self-identify on the 4473 as White, or as Black or African American? If he/she says "White," could he/she be prosecuted for perjury? Is that any more (or less) of a lie than if that person had checked the box for Black or African American?
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Again, read the instructions.
This isn't anything new.

Was President Obama Black, White, or Gray?
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Gray has never been an option.

I wonder how many FFLs and how many BATFE field agents know that?
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Only those that bother reading the instructions that have been on every Form 4473 since 1968.:D
 
labnoti The reason the OMB controls this is because of the Paperwork Reduction Act. OMB is required by Congressional act to approve the forms, to account for the cost of forms, and do things like constrain runaway form fields and excess and inconsistent field options. Notice the OMB number in the upper right corner of 4473.
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It's not just 4473's, but all federal forms.
In Special Education the federal paperwork asks the exact same biographical questions on the student as it does on a gun buyer.
 
T. O'Heir Non-binary means it's analogue. What do you suppose the unelected civil servants at the ATF are smoking now?
The new 4473 is also defacto firearm registration.
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Yet again, wrong.
ATF isn't the one requiring these changes....its ALL federal forms.
Who's the one smoking here?:rolleyes:
 
Dogtown, can you explain how a sale can proceed if the information on the 4473 and the buyer's ID do not match??

I'm not trying to yank anybody's chain here, I'm not in the business, and I really don't know what allows what seems to be common sense... I can understand some leeway, possibly for simply checking the wrong box by mistake and correcting that, but don't ATF inspector consider errors in the paperwork something they can cite dealers over?

Is there a level of "mismatch" that is acceptable?
 
dogtown tom said:
Aguila Blanca said:
There's no option for "Mixed race."
Click to expand...
Of course not....read the instructions right next to the word "Race".
...
This isn't anything new.
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Where are the instructions for the new form?

I didn't say this was anything new. My point is that we see more and more interracial marriages and relationships these days, but the 4473 doesn't provide a way to address the offspring of such marriages and relationships. The current form doesn't offer "Non-Binary" as a choice for gender, either. If they're going to revise the forum to add a spurious gender option that doesn't exist in the physical world, it seems to me they could (and should) also revise it to add a race choice for something that occurs quite often in the real world, and isn't scientifically invalid.
 
Scorch
... note that after a high profile shooting the FBI and news media know within an hour where the gun was sold and to who. You don't get that from leafing through old 4473s at a desk, that comes from computers.
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Oh good grief.
If there's a "high profile shooting" the FBI and news media aren't going to know "where the gun was sold from and to who" from any federal computer. Mainly because ONLY THE DEALER HAS THAT INFORMATION! I have eleven years worth of 4473's that ATF has never seen and will not until I go out of business. And at age twenty those 4473's can be destroyed.

But......It may be possible to access a state firearm registration database....but states that require any sort of actual firearm registration are very few.



Years ago, my brother had some firearms stolen and reported them to the CA DOJ. The person he spoke with asked him his personal information, then what type of firearm was stolen, then proceeded to tell him where the guns were bought, the date of purchase, and the serial numbers.
Click to expand...
Well duh.....it's California.
In Texas?.........:D
 
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