Forend Lights...who uses them who doesnt and why?
- Thread starter Nimitz87
- Start date
Bump *grin*
I want to bring this often asked and very good question back to top again if I may. I had some folks contact me,basically the question was Denny and you Steve disagreed - how come?
Answer: Training
I am comfortable enough to post this and Denny and I have corresponded before on various things, so I have no problems with my answer, and Denny and I actually agree on matters. We agree to disagree. If nothing else getting folks to Think, be responsible and get training is what this forum - this thread is all about.
MY training has NOT been at Awerbuck's or similar. Mine was more one-on-one with folks having Military and / or LEO training many many years ago. Before sidesaddles, extended mags or Surefires [ any light systems] were available. I take one thing back, Dept guns sometimes had the extended mag of one or two rds. Maglights were the lights officers used.
MY Shotgunning was a LOT of Clays , hunting and such. The nature of a business I was in - my biggest concerns was entering or leaving a premise. My " life experiences" if you will - well BTDT , let us leave it at that shall we?
Now some things I know about shotgunning. Gun has to fit the shooter for task. Gun has to be reliable with ammo. Pattern board will reveal what that bbl does with that ammo at that distance.
Now I admit I do have a LOT of trigger time and rds downrange with shotguns. I also just admitted I do NOT have the training of today with the offerings of Surefires and such.
As I have told Denny and many many folks, I ever get a chance to train - I want to do so with Awerbuck. I will show up with a bone stock shotgun that fits, then say " Mr. Awerbuck, unlearn me, then teach me". I will then let Awerbuck tweak my gun fit [ and we all know how much I harp on gun fit] show me how to use a light on the forearm, and everything else.
My role in teaching new shooters has been Kids, ladies, and folks to shoot. Some I taught to shoot skeet, in order to be better bird shooters. Kids - I have soft spot for, they may want to go dove / small game hunting. Ladied, run the gamut from HD to skeet to general hunting. I also have taught the elderly and those with disabilites from surgeries, to arthritis to whatever.
Denny hit on the fact you may have to dial a phone and keep the BG at bay.
I have had many folks that cannot physically do this with the many tactically equipped shotguns. I catch flak if I mention any other platform than a 12 bore tactically equipped shotgun. I catch flak if I mention a big guy can shoot a smaller /lighter gun - the teenager/ wife cannot always handle the big guys tactical gun.
Folks the name of the game is to survive. My role has been to teach to that person the basics. I always always suggest they get more advanced training.
Michael Plaxco shared with me many things - one is the basics never change- one constantly ingrains the basics.
Some of my students have taken further instruction in various disciplines, be it clay games or HD.
I also have the single mom's , that have been in an abusive relationship, trying to raise a kid perhaps. I catch flak for the $50 Pawn shop single shot shotguns of yesteryear. Then again that is all she could afford, I trained her in the 4 rules of safety and how to use that shotgun. Later on she could progress to the next level(s) when money became availble.
The retired LEO with diabetes, one foot amputated and so arthritic he cannot shoot a handgun, well he uses a bone stock shotgun, a double bbl at that. We had to find what fit him - for his task.
The main things I do/ have done with these folks after the 4 rules, getting a gun that fits, ammo reliabilty and such - 1) mindset, 2) security of the premise. Better locks, motion lights, phones, safe room, a plan, practice these plans with kids, family, teach the kid to not open the door when the door bell rings...etc.
So Denny and I did not disagree. I admitted my faults and lack of training. Denny has a different background than I. He has and continues to train. Denny started with the basics, he took upper level classes - and you know what - Denny Still continues to take the basic level classes over and over.
I take the ability to defend one's self very serious. Everyone has a right - even kids. Kids are human beings too. Teach the 4 rules and train them for that stage of developement and responsiblity they can handle.
We have shotgunners, then we have folks that collect shotguns and accessories. The former can defend, be it a bone stock shotgun, or one more tactically set up and the user trained by Awerbuck. The later will get themselves or others hurt or worse.
Gimme a old fart that shot lots of skeet and bird hunted with a bone stock model 12 to watch my six over the wannabe, with the most ultimate tactical shotgun, rarely shot , never trained.
Misseldine said Good shooters are made - not born.
Yeah get a light and get trained up on how to use it.
I want to bring this often asked and very good question back to top again if I may. I had some folks contact me,basically the question was Denny and you Steve disagreed - how come?
Answer: Training
I am comfortable enough to post this and Denny and I have corresponded before on various things, so I have no problems with my answer, and Denny and I actually agree on matters. We agree to disagree. If nothing else getting folks to Think, be responsible and get training is what this forum - this thread is all about.
MY training has NOT been at Awerbuck's or similar. Mine was more one-on-one with folks having Military and / or LEO training many many years ago. Before sidesaddles, extended mags or Surefires [ any light systems] were available. I take one thing back, Dept guns sometimes had the extended mag of one or two rds. Maglights were the lights officers used.
MY Shotgunning was a LOT of Clays , hunting and such. The nature of a business I was in - my biggest concerns was entering or leaving a premise. My " life experiences" if you will - well BTDT , let us leave it at that shall we?
Now some things I know about shotgunning. Gun has to fit the shooter for task. Gun has to be reliable with ammo. Pattern board will reveal what that bbl does with that ammo at that distance.
Now I admit I do have a LOT of trigger time and rds downrange with shotguns. I also just admitted I do NOT have the training of today with the offerings of Surefires and such.
As I have told Denny and many many folks, I ever get a chance to train - I want to do so with Awerbuck. I will show up with a bone stock shotgun that fits, then say " Mr. Awerbuck, unlearn me, then teach me". I will then let Awerbuck tweak my gun fit [ and we all know how much I harp on gun fit] show me how to use a light on the forearm, and everything else.
My role in teaching new shooters has been Kids, ladies, and folks to shoot. Some I taught to shoot skeet, in order to be better bird shooters. Kids - I have soft spot for, they may want to go dove / small game hunting. Ladied, run the gamut from HD to skeet to general hunting. I also have taught the elderly and those with disabilites from surgeries, to arthritis to whatever.
Denny hit on the fact you may have to dial a phone and keep the BG at bay.
I have had many folks that cannot physically do this with the many tactically equipped shotguns. I catch flak if I mention any other platform than a 12 bore tactically equipped shotgun. I catch flak if I mention a big guy can shoot a smaller /lighter gun - the teenager/ wife cannot always handle the big guys tactical gun.
Folks the name of the game is to survive. My role has been to teach to that person the basics. I always always suggest they get more advanced training.
Michael Plaxco shared with me many things - one is the basics never change- one constantly ingrains the basics.
Some of my students have taken further instruction in various disciplines, be it clay games or HD.
I also have the single mom's , that have been in an abusive relationship, trying to raise a kid perhaps. I catch flak for the $50 Pawn shop single shot shotguns of yesteryear. Then again that is all she could afford, I trained her in the 4 rules of safety and how to use that shotgun. Later on she could progress to the next level(s) when money became availble.
The retired LEO with diabetes, one foot amputated and so arthritic he cannot shoot a handgun, well he uses a bone stock shotgun, a double bbl at that. We had to find what fit him - for his task.
The main things I do/ have done with these folks after the 4 rules, getting a gun that fits, ammo reliabilty and such - 1) mindset, 2) security of the premise. Better locks, motion lights, phones, safe room, a plan, practice these plans with kids, family, teach the kid to not open the door when the door bell rings...etc.
So Denny and I did not disagree. I admitted my faults and lack of training. Denny has a different background than I. He has and continues to train. Denny started with the basics, he took upper level classes - and you know what - Denny Still continues to take the basic level classes over and over.
I take the ability to defend one's self very serious. Everyone has a right - even kids. Kids are human beings too. Teach the 4 rules and train them for that stage of developement and responsiblity they can handle.
We have shotgunners, then we have folks that collect shotguns and accessories. The former can defend, be it a bone stock shotgun, or one more tactically set up and the user trained by Awerbuck. The later will get themselves or others hurt or worse.
Gimme a old fart that shot lots of skeet and bird hunted with a bone stock model 12 to watch my six over the wannabe, with the most ultimate tactical shotgun, rarely shot , never trained.
Misseldine said Good shooters are made - not born.
Yeah get a light and get trained up on how to use it.
I like the aesthetic of the old stripped-down pump, but the lights are probably a good idea. Most shootings occur at night, and if you need a light to see the target, it must be attached to the shotgun, unless you have a third hand.
I don't think it needs to be super-powerful, just enough to illuminate a man-sized target at, say, 25 yards.
Most of the guns in my department now have foreend lights. We train to minimize the time the light is on.
I'm an old Infantryman, myself, and if I want to be in stealth-mode, I have the choice of not turning on the light...
I don't think it needs to be super-powerful, just enough to illuminate a man-sized target at, say, 25 yards.
Most of the guns in my department now have foreend lights. We train to minimize the time the light is on.
I'm an old Infantryman, myself, and if I want to be in stealth-mode, I have the choice of not turning on the light...
One more thing...
Two nights ago I went outside to the front porch to smoke. There was the squeal of tires, no headlights on, seven small caliber shots rang out in rapid fire less than a half a block from me.
Stop - Drop - Roll.
I am 50 y/o and by the 3rd shot I had hit the porch and rolled off the two foot plus drop to the lawn, into a shrub,then scooting back behind the angle of concrete porch.
Shot were fired the other direction,[later learned] understand I was not really concerned about the "where" of the shots at the time - I was concerned about my "where" not being there.
It was over as soon as it had started. I was CCW'ing as I always do at home [ on person]. Motion detectors are great - the damn things sure are bright tho' when you want to hide in darkeness.
This is why I CCW even at home. I repeat -my experiences have been entering or leaving a premise. As it is said a handgun is to fight your way to a long gun - even one with a light.
Shrub got a good clipping too next morning...cut me up...wondered where the blood came from. I did not draw my CCW, I was doing the 'hug lawn and scoot back fast drill".
I gotta get softer concrete for the porch and softer lawn...maybe not so high while I am at it. Now that I think about it. [rubs arm]
One never knows the where or when of next encounter - CRSam
My training kicked in - Stop - Drop - Roll, seek cover. Or like *someone* around here says " stay low and watch your back".
Two nights ago I went outside to the front porch to smoke. There was the squeal of tires, no headlights on, seven small caliber shots rang out in rapid fire less than a half a block from me.
Stop - Drop - Roll.
I am 50 y/o and by the 3rd shot I had hit the porch and rolled off the two foot plus drop to the lawn, into a shrub,then scooting back behind the angle of concrete porch.
Shot were fired the other direction,[later learned] understand I was not really concerned about the "where" of the shots at the time - I was concerned about my "where" not being there.
It was over as soon as it had started. I was CCW'ing as I always do at home [ on person]. Motion detectors are great - the damn things sure are bright tho' when you want to hide in darkeness.
This is why I CCW even at home. I repeat -my experiences have been entering or leaving a premise. As it is said a handgun is to fight your way to a long gun - even one with a light.
Shrub got a good clipping too next morning...cut me up...wondered where the blood came from. I did not draw my CCW, I was doing the 'hug lawn and scoot back fast drill".
I gotta get softer concrete for the porch and softer lawn...maybe not so high while I am at it. Now that I think about it. [rubs arm]
One never knows the where or when of next encounter - CRSam
My training kicked in - Stop - Drop - Roll, seek cover. Or like *someone* around here says " stay low and watch your back".
