Forced entry into a residence and intruder shot

C

Colorado Redneck

New member
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/bou...e-da-continue-investigate-fatal-shooting-pima

"The next-door neighbor who witnessed Monday night's alleged break-in and fatal shooting on Pima Court in Boulder said he watched the intruder — a University of Colorado student — sprint headfirst "six to eight" times before hearing a gunshot ring out, in an incident he described as less than a minute long.

"You ever see the 'Hulk' movies? Where he breaks through the door?" said neighbor Brock Derby, 22, of the suspected intruder, identified Tuesday by the Boulder County Coroner's Office as Roberto Zamora, 19, of Boulder.

"He just looked crazed. There was no sense of self-preservation whatsoever."
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This is an interesting (if sad) incident that happened in the heart of liberalism in Boulder, Colorado. The article and forum comments at the bottom of the article are revealing of a mindset that is disturbing.
 
Close to a drive by but I'll let it go with some more comments.

The article describes the relevant statutes as "Make my day" laws. That's certain a touch of prejudice.

As far as liberalism, I don't know if political attitude is relevant to crazy folks breaking in - so let's skip that.
 
yes that Make My Day Law reference but what I find troubling is the comment about it being tragic that the perp died good grief it was the perp.
 
This is an unacceptable post but I will leave it as a lesson.

For TFL and general civilization:

1. It is always tragic when someone is killed. Even if it is justified, it is never a good thing. That is a cornerstone of modern self-defense law. A killing is justified but it is not a good thing.

2. The 'perp'. What an immature usage. We don't know the details but if this is an emotionally distributed or mentally ill person - one may have to use lethal force to defend oneself but that is not a good thing if the person is not in control of their faculties. There are clear cut physiological reasons that cause uncontrolled violent behavior. Even if was because of self-chosen substance abuse, it is not a good think that someone dies.

If one wants to comment in such a manner, TFL is not the venue for such. This is a hint.
 
IMO Make my Day is irrelevant and Colorado's Castle doctrine applies here. It can hardly be expected that a man attacked in his own home would be thrilled over it. If anything, it's basic self defense. I suspect the deceased was on unlicensed recreational drugs.
 
Glenn--go ahead and close the thread. That was an interesting yet disturbing write up, and I thought it might stimulate some discussion. No ill intentions on my part.

Roger
 
Today the AP ran an article about two recent self-defense shootings in Utah. One was an intervention in a carjacking. Article contained much hand-wringing over 'tragic deaths', and questioned the morality of laws allowing self-defense shooting in crimes that carry no death penalty. Apparently rape, robbery, assault, and the impossibility of predeterming the outcome of an attack are not sufficient.

This is what we are up against. There is a legion of media hacks, professional activists, and pro bono shysters looking for a case to use to turn back the laws of self-defense.
 
No reason to close it and no foul just because one person decided to crap in the thread. That is being pointed out as an example.

I think it is worth discussion if folks want.
 
It's late evening and you hear...WHAM....WHAM....WHAM.....WHAM......WHAM...WHAM. MIxed in is the sound of your glass dor shattering and at between 6-8 WHAMs your front door is broken open. No sound of "POLICE>>>SEARCH WARRANT"

Shortly thereafter you see someone in your house who isclearly not LEO. You discharge (1) shot form your gun and stop the threat.

1) Even with Castle Doctrine, your nightmare isn't over yet.
2) Depending on the journo. who writes the story, you may be made to look like the bad guy.
3) You are now the subject of a HOMICIDE investigation.
4) Depending on the politics of your area and more importantly D.A.'s office this might get expensive.
5) Who knows what intoxicants or mental state the intruder is on / in. Your quick decision and reaction are now going to be scrutinized to the nth degree by Monday Morning Quarterbacks. Ref. to 4.

One shot and done; not empty the mag. Yet in this article the investigation is made to sound as if they will be looking at whether "Reasonable Force" was used. Sucks to be the occupant of that home.
 
A very strange case. I wonder how it would have gone to hold him at gun point. Would he comply or would you just be shooting him during a wrestling match for your gun? No time outs in the real world. Don't know how I would have handled it. Breaking down doors with your body doesn't lead one to think you are about to engage in a logical conversation with said door breaker.
 
Kind of scary. Thinking about it happening in my home.

If police have a no knock warrant, they still yell police right?

I could see a nightmare scenario where people break in and start yelling police to confuse the person.
 
Dealing with possible intruder is dicey

About 40 years ago, an employee at my work was fired. There were threats made, and it was worrying to me because I was a foreman---did not fire the guy but had to fill in his job until a replacement was hired. In the summer we always locked the screen door, and when we retired for the night, closed the door and locked it. One night shortly after falling asleep, I woke up and somebody was trying to open the screen door--our bedroom window was open and I heard that sound of the door being tried. I immediately got up and got my pistol, and went directly to the living room where that door was located. My wife was yelling at me to watch for the kids, and evidently that scared the person, or they gave up on trying to get in our house.

It turned out that the person got into a neighbor's house down the street from us, that did not have their doors locked. The neighbor heard somebody in the house, got his gun and found the intruder in the bathroom. The neighbor cold cocked the intruder and called the police.

If the intruder had successfully gotten into my living room, things may have gone really bad, as I was about half thinking that ex-employee was the one trying my door. At that time, IIRC, we did not have the "Make My Day Law" in Colorado yet. If I had shot the intruder, that could have been more than ugly.

There are so many variables when things happen like this, that the outcome is difficult to judge. My opinion of the incident related in the link in the OP is, the resident was entirely justified in his actions. How this plays out will be interesting, and the autopsy results will possibly reveal why the trespasser was seemingly off his rocker. Sad story, to say the least.
 
There are clear cut physiological reasons that cause uncontrolled violent behavior. Even if was because of self-chosen substance abuse, it is not a good think that someone dies.
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I sure hope the first thing that happens is they test the dead guy for drugs. Apparently there are some new designer drugs out there that will cause people who choose to take them to become extremely violent and act totally irrationally "Flakka" or "$5 insanity". If this stuff is getting broader appeal, then we may need to rethink the way we defend ourselves.
 
Apparently there are some new designer drugs out there that will cause people who choose to take them to become extremely violent and act totally irrationally "Flakka" or "$5 insanity". If this stuff is getting broader appeal, then we may need to rethink the way we defend ourselves.
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Ok, your attacker was on dope. Fine. Bully for them. I don't CARE!

WHY an attacker does what they do is of absolutely no relevance during an attack. And dang little to me, afterwards.

Being all messed up in your head (for any/all reasons) is an explanation, not an excuse.

I don't see any need to rethink the way we defend ourselves. Violent homicidal people have been around as long as people have been around. WHY they are that way doesn't matter when they are pounding your head into the pavement, trying to cut you and your family into stew meat, or pulling the trigger in a mass shooting. ALL that matters is what they do, and what we do in response.
 
SHR970 has a pretty good list of lessons to consider.
I'm not sure if it's a lesson, but the part that brought me up short was this piece of the story where the story quotes the neighbor:
That's when I walked up the stairs and I could see him laying there, bullet hole clean through the back."
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This makes it sound like he was shot in the back. I thought immediately "or that could be the exit wound." I don't know how that might work for you in a legal situation, but it might be best to keep gun-ignorant neighbors from seeing the scene? I'd hate to have an in-home shooting and the neighbor start telling people crap like "He sprayed bullets all over; I saw holes all over the wall." I'm not sure if that could be used in a potential trial situation to gun-ignorant jury members.

Note: the neighbor in this case appears to have owned a firearm, so he *shouldn't* be a "gun-ignorant neighbor," but you never know how their version of the story is going to come out.
 
I don't want my neighbors coming in and contaminating the crime scene.

In this case tough, the neighbor is in asset in the respect that he was on the line with 911 when this was going down. Having an independant witness corroborating the occupants statement that the intruder was acting completely irrationally is a very good thing.

Even in a state that does not have castle doctrine or has a presumption of fear as an aspect of castle doctrine....this in and of itself goes a long way toward establishing a reasonable fear defense.

In Ca. CPC 198.5 states:

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.

I can negate the presumption of fear by saying something real stupid like: I wasn't scared of the SOB..I had my 12 gauge! That could change this from a justifiable homicide to Murder 2
 
Bultaco wrote: I wonder how it would have gone to hold him at gun point.
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If you point a gun at someone that just violently broke into your home at night and they keep advancing when do YOU decide to pull the trigger? Think fast because this is going to turn ugly fast.

I am not going to get into a wrestling contest or let an intruder take my gun from me. If they do not comply with my orders or turn and run away, my attorney will be doing the explaining for me. I will give no statement to anyone while my ears are still ringing.
 
This thread demonstrates a problem here with the moderators. One moderator says that I pooped on the thread and gives a warning and another comes out and in more detail echoes my sentiments. How the heck is someone supposed to comment on an event here when one moderator takes more of a view like the anti gunner and right to life folks?
 
Ok, your attacker was on dope. Fine. Bully for them. I don't CARE! WHY an attacker does what they do is of absolutely no relevance during an attack. And dang little to me, afterwards.
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Re-read what I wrote; think again. It does matter. It goes to awareness. If this new stuff gets half as popular as meth I want to know everything I can about it so that I can be fully aware of my surroundings. It's not wise to be oblivious to why people act crazy and attack..
 
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