For those who think sighted fire won't work at close range

The draw stroke is no longer important because you don't have to wait until full extension to make the majority of the shots one would expect to encounter in a realistic shooting scenario.
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7677,

The draw stroke is important for several reasons.

a) Consistency of grip. Without that any 'pointing' will not point to where you look, especially if you can't see the gun in your peripheral vision. Just get the weapon in a shifted grip will show anyone why a good grip is mandatory. We all know that when firing at a real threat you will most likely not see the hits and thus no correction feedback. And that means your alignment must be good.

b) Getting the weapon out without fumbling under stress. This is especially true if there is any concealment, straps, snaps, safeties, etc...

c) Even 1/2 or 3/4 hip can be considered part of the draw stroke (the 4 point stroke is not the only way to draw) and thus the alignment needed requires practice. No matter how you do it, you will have to have a consistent alignment, and thus a consistent draw stroke.

So, yes one needs to do everything from the leather to ingrain the correct way to draw under stress for both alignment and consistency.
 
7677,

The draw stroke is important for several reasons.

a) Consistency of grip. Without that any 'pointing' will not point to where you look, especially if you can't see the gun in your peripheral vision. Just get the weapon in a shifted grip will show anyone why a good grip is mandatory. We all know that when firing at a real threat you will most likely not see the hits and thus no correction feedback. And that means your alignment must be good.

b) Getting the weapon out without fumbling under stress. This is especially true if there is any concealment, straps, snaps, safeties, etc...

c) Even 1/2 or 3/4 hip can be considered part of the draw stroke (the 4 point stroke is not the only way to draw) and thus the alignment needed requires practice. No matter how you do it, you will have to have a consistent alignment, and thus a consistent draw stroke.

So, yes one needs to do everything from the leather to ingrain the correct way to draw under stress for both alignment and consistency.

Ye gads, I am agreeing so much with Deaf Smith lately that I may start believing in the Easter Bunny.
(Can peace in the Middle East be far behind?)
Thank goodness someone finally stated that the 4 count draw stroke is not the only animal in the forest.
I fully agree and teach my students to get a firing grip on the weapon before drawing it out of the holster.
This way there is no wasted motion bringing it onto the target, be it close hip, half hip. 3/4, full extension or a combination of them all. (As per this demo:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcc8DVRO_TU&feature=related)
I think that what 7677 is alluding to is to have the gun out in covert ready, so as not to have to do a panic draw.
Out of all the times that I had to draw my weapon only once was I taken by complete surprise and had to draw from complete concealment to get the drop on a bad guy who ( I thought) was reaching for a gun.
Sure did make all those moments practicing in front of a mirror worthwhile.
 
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Deaf,
Your missing the point...but then again haven't we gone over this in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003...and now 2009.

For everyone else who is interested...with sighted shooting the draw stroke is the means to the end, i.e. you have to get to the end of it in order to see your sights to make the shot. With point shooting, you draw to the first point within the draw stroke in order to make the shot. The draw stroke is compressed but that does not means the grip initiation is changed.

You draw to the point to your eyes are focused on and fire. You do not have to have this perfect alignment and when you identify a threat and you think you are may need to use your gun it should be in your hand in a covert position such as down by the side of your leg not your holster.
 
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sighted shooting the draw stroke is the means to the end
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Retention/hip shooting/'1/4 hip' is most certianly part of sighted fire. Even the MT system has the speed rock.

It's what is between full extension and such as 1/4th hip that we find disagreement as for what is necessary.

And 7677, there are too many surveillance videos where shop owners didn't have time to get their roscoe out before festivities commenced. And that is why you train from the holster.

And Matt, there will NEVER be peace in the Middle East until everyone involved over there has killed each other. Eye for an eye is just their code of conduct. Their lifestyle.
 
Deaf,
You are entitled to your opinion of what works however I'm not going argue this with you yet again because I have already put your opinion of what works into its proper perspective...you refuse to put it to the test.

I also don't know what videos you are watching but the ones I've seen the clerk usually draws the weapon from a location by the register after the criminal was stuffing the money in their pockets.
 
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Regardless of what videos you or I watch 7677, they still had to draw the weapon from a location. So it was not in their hand to begin with. And thus an incorrect grip can easily result.

And that is why you train from the leather (or for these store owners who carry off body, as Lance Thomas did, train from the hidden holster below the counter.)

You still don't just hold it in you hand with a perfect grip.
 
Deaf,
You are absolutely correct if the gun is not already in your hand you have to draw it from someplace.
 
And Matt, there will NEVER be peace in the Middle East until everyone involved over there has killed each other. Eye for an eye is just their code of conduct. Their lifestyle.

What about the Easter Bunny?
 
What about the Easter Bunny?
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What about him? He lives. Thank God he lives! Ten times ten thousand years from now he will still continue to live in the hearts of...........oh wait a minute, that's somebody else.
 
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