OzeanJaeger
New member
I have one in the safe...inherited. I've never fired it or looked into reloading for it. I will say it's in very good condition, and nothing is wrong with the stock at all.
For those that want a K31
- Thread starter Geezerbiker
- Start date
It's too heavy to carry compared to nearly any rifle carried by any military today. I don't think bayonets have been important since Stonewall Jackson's day. They are nice curio and relics and a lot of fun but not very useful to carry while hunting or at war. If it is 50 yards from the truck to the blind it is one thing but that is hardly "carrying".
This is a yes and no kind of question, depending on how you rate "important".
As the decisive implement of battle, yes its been a while. However there were bayonet charges during WWII. During the 70s when I took Army Basic Training, our bayonet training was being shown the bayonet, and told we would not use it. MARINES at the time still got hand to hand bayonet combat training.
None of today's military rifles are optimized for hand to hand combat today, With or without the bayonet. And tactics are different than they used to be. Also the military has generally recognized the very high odds that if you meet an enemy soldier at bayonet range, the odds are very high that at least ONE of you will have ammunition.
However, the bayonet, while not widely used on the rifle in combat, is not obsolete. It keeps the secondary role it has always had (and perhaps its even more important today than it used to be..??)
That is the role of ...persuading.. people you don't want to shoot, unless you have to, to do what you want. Herding prisoners, or (what we don't like to admit to doing) unfriendly non-combatants.
It is amazing, but often observed, that some people will show no fear of being shot, but are afraid of being poked with a sharp knife on the end of a rifle. And that's where the bayonet on a rifle still has a valid and useful function.
I won't deny it is heavy, my references put it at 8.8lbs. I don't have any references for what the M16 variants currently being carried, with add on sights, lights, grips, rails, and can openers, etc, but I understand fully kitted out they go 8 or 9 lbs. (if you have data, please share)
The classic M1 Garand is listed at 9.5lbs
One thing the K31 always puts me in mind of, is a reputed confrontation between a Nazi general and the Swiss General in charge of their home guard. The Germans were trying to bully Switzerland, and looked like they might try to invade to get their way. The Nazi general (correctly) states the number of troops the Swiss can put on their borders, and Germany can put tice that many men on Swiss borders to attack. "What will your soldiers do then?" the German taunts...
The Swiss General replies, straight face, "each man will shoot twice, then, go home." Bluff called, I'd say!
(this might be a "slightly enhanced" version of an actual conversation, I don't know, but it does make a good story)
K31s are a finely made relic of an earlier era, good shooting rifles, with a highly unique design. Personally, I found the wrist of the stock to be too thick for comfort with my usual grip. Actually got hand cramps trying to hold it the way I was used to. You might have a different experience.
If they're a bargain now at $400, why weren't they a bargain at $400 just five years ago??
It's called herd mentality, "groupthink".
Suddenly a half decade ago, all these old military rifles that had been sitting in warehouses here, selling slowly, surely, and priced reasonably (for what they are- an old rifle) for the past fifty years became collectible. Gotta have one. " They're not making any more" is commonly chanted...
They "weren't making any more" as soon as five years ago, and were the domain of serious collectors, and plinkers. Then came Sandy Hook, and the great freak-out. "They're coming for our guns"....
Suddenly, anything that would shoot- cheaply at that time- was snatched up along with the countless thousands of tons of dirt cheap surplus ammo for them, as you couldn't get ammo for anything, anywhere.
Have we already forgotten when there was a year wait for primers and powders due to the craziness of the hoarders??
Rare and collectible rifles are exactly that, but most old milsurps just don't fall into that category. Crappy Turk Mausers that couldn't fetch fifty bucks just a few years ago are asking five times that.
Seems to be this mentality that just like stocks, prices can only go one way. We'll know in 5-10 years who was right.
Just like anything else, value is what someone's willing to pay for it when you try to sell.
It's called herd mentality, "groupthink".
Suddenly a half decade ago, all these old military rifles that had been sitting in warehouses here, selling slowly, surely, and priced reasonably (for what they are- an old rifle) for the past fifty years became collectible. Gotta have one. " They're not making any more" is commonly chanted...
They "weren't making any more" as soon as five years ago, and were the domain of serious collectors, and plinkers. Then came Sandy Hook, and the great freak-out. "They're coming for our guns"....
Suddenly, anything that would shoot- cheaply at that time- was snatched up along with the countless thousands of tons of dirt cheap surplus ammo for them, as you couldn't get ammo for anything, anywhere.
Have we already forgotten when there was a year wait for primers and powders due to the craziness of the hoarders??
Rare and collectible rifles are exactly that, but most old milsurps just don't fall into that category. Crappy Turk Mausers that couldn't fetch fifty bucks just a few years ago are asking five times that.
Seems to be this mentality that just like stocks, prices can only go one way. We'll know in 5-10 years who was right.
Just like anything else, value is what someone's willing to pay for it when you try to sell.
A little over 4 years ago, I sold 2 Mosins (91/30 & M44) and 3 cans of ammo that I turned into my K31 purchase (also got 2 cases of GP11 and a couple hundred PPU SP rounds). I liked shooting the moist nuggets, but found I wanted the accuracy of the 91/30 in the compactness of the M44. I had missed the earlier offerings of K31s at $100 and wasn't into reloading at that time either, so I passed on the superior rifle, until I finally bought in @ $300.
When I see what MNs are going for, I agree, there's odd trends in perceived values of firearms. However, I don't see Sandy Hook impacting the price of bolt actions like it specifically did "assault rifles" or handguns, other than growing the ranks of firearms enthusiasts. I'm not looking for the investment value of these rifles. I'm seeing them as a way to get into high quality, accurate, rifles for not a lot of money (comparatively). K31s are not cheap rifles, they are are high quality rifles, currently available for a reasonable price. To me, it's like getting a Toyota Tacoma at a Ram 1500 price (to borrow from 44 AMP's analogy).
As far as the other post(s) regarding their weight: I have no problem carrying or holding my rifle (+scope) all day. Granted, the property I hunt has a cabin in the center of the property and I'm within a 1/2 mile hike through woods/hills to even the farthest reaches of that property, so I'm not going miles & miles to get to my hunting spot, but I am getting a couple miles heading out in the morning, coming in at lunch and out for afternoon/evening hunts.
I agree fully on the nothing to do with Hillary or Trump or anything else other than a lot of interest. I see young guys all the time with MNs. They are getting their feet wet and I think its great (even if the price has gone up).
Good to see a new generation getting interested.
I was fortunate that the guy who sold me the K31 just wanted to pass it on.
Its more I had missed them than dismissed them.
Its a beautifully crafted gun and is undervalued for the quality in my opinion.
I had a discussion with a guy who complained the 1917s were too much and not worth it.
Really? You don't have to pay what they are asking.
Isn't that what its about, getting the best buck for what you are selling vs what someone is willing to pay?
Well then don't buy one!
Sorry bub, I can't help you, its called life, disappointments and all that.
Good to see a new generation getting interested.
I was fortunate that the guy who sold me the K31 just wanted to pass it on.
Its more I had missed them than dismissed them.
Its a beautifully crafted gun and is undervalued for the quality in my opinion.
I had a discussion with a guy who complained the 1917s were too much and not worth it.
Really? You don't have to pay what they are asking.
" hmmm, that may have worked when you were two but now?
Isn't that what its about, getting the best buck for what you are selling vs what someone is willing to pay?
Well then don't buy one!
Sorry bub, I can't help you, its called life, disappointments and all that.
By serial number I have one of the last 20 or so Walnut K31s ever produced. Bought it for 159 dollars after the seller ended the auction early and demanded I send payment on a Sunday. It was as if the thing were emitting gamma rays or something. So I took this old beast out to the range and proceeded to shoot a group at 100 yds with open sights that bested a scoped Ruger Varmint rifle.
Shot several deer with it. Makes a heck of a thump and breaks em down. Hornady load.
Just dont lower the action below your face and shuck it real hard, unless you like the taste of brass.
Shot several deer with it. Makes a heck of a thump and breaks em down. Hornady load.
Just dont lower the action below your face and shuck it real hard, unless you like the taste of brass.
It wasn't the hoarders. It was the quasi wholesalers and retailers who kept us all bidding against each other on one website instead of sending product to store shelves. Everything you wanted was available. It was just all on a certain website going for seven times retail price.
I'll guarantee that any Marine in WWII would trade their M1 with bayonet for an M4 without one in a heartbeat. Unfortunately they weren't invented yet. Regarding milsurps, I have a Swede, 96/38 (I think) that is smoother and lighter than the K31 and just as accurate, at least it was for me. The Euro sights on both are fairly crappy, IMO.
Nothing the least wrong with the Sweede. I could have gone 6.5 if I had been more informed. The K31 works in nicely with my 30 caliber stuff.
It is lighter, have not shot one, but the K31 sights are very good for irons. Model of 1917 is better, but that was the best sight setup ever in Mil Surplus as it had the thick front sight blade that the Marines converted their 1903s to.
Its a better setup than the 1903 and 1903A3 with that thin front sight.
K31 has the same thick front blade the 1917 does, a big help .
So you really think the Marines would trade a 22 caliber for a 30 caliber that could actually shoot a ways? I find that pretty funny. Same guys who held onto their 1903s until they saw the light when the Army came ashore with the M1?
Different fighting, we are not facing and have not faced a hepped up Banzai charge since WWII. It take at least 3 rounds to knock off a thin person with the 5.56.
Keep in mind that regardless of the "official" arming, US troops worked out a mix of what worked for any given situation.
The Marines had access to Sub Machine guns, M1 Carbine, BAR, M1.
They were marksman (and still teach that).
Some of them would have gone with the M4 maybe, most would pick an M1. You could target shoot given the range, it had a good reach by itself and better with a Bayonet.
Watch the pictures and videos. They ALWAYS had a bayonet on the gun.
You look at WWII in Europe. By the time they hit Germany about half had Sub Machine guns. They traded to get what worked, but half sill kept the M1s as they were effective.
It is lighter, have not shot one, but the K31 sights are very good for irons. Model of 1917 is better, but that was the best sight setup ever in Mil Surplus as it had the thick front sight blade that the Marines converted their 1903s to.
Its a better setup than the 1903 and 1903A3 with that thin front sight.
K31 has the same thick front blade the 1917 does, a big help .
So you really think the Marines would trade a 22 caliber for a 30 caliber that could actually shoot a ways? I find that pretty funny. Same guys who held onto their 1903s until they saw the light when the Army came ashore with the M1?
Different fighting, we are not facing and have not faced a hepped up Banzai charge since WWII. It take at least 3 rounds to knock off a thin person with the 5.56.
Keep in mind that regardless of the "official" arming, US troops worked out a mix of what worked for any given situation.
The Marines had access to Sub Machine guns, M1 Carbine, BAR, M1.
They were marksman (and still teach that).
Some of them would have gone with the M4 maybe, most would pick an M1. You could target shoot given the range, it had a good reach by itself and better with a Bayonet.
Watch the pictures and videos. They ALWAYS had a bayonet on the gun.
You look at WWII in Europe. By the time they hit Germany about half had Sub Machine guns. They traded to get what worked, but half sill kept the M1s as they were effective.
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Yes the GP11 ammo is no longer available. However, a nice mild load of 44.5 gr of IMR 4895 behind a Sierra 155 Match King in PRV brass works very nicely. Just remember to ALWAYS full length resize and seat your bullet to almost touch the lands. (It will probably look like it is seated too deep.)
highpower3006
New member
I have both, and while the Swede is a bit more elegant, the K31 has to have the finest fit and finish of any the fifty or so military rifles I own. I can't say if it is more accurate or not as my M96 was a FSR rifle and has a splendid set of diopter sights, while the K31 still has the original military sights.
During it's period of use all wood and steel military rifles were heavy, but then the end users were young men that were in good condition. Modern M4's may look lighter, but after they hang all the accessories on them, they are approaching 8 pounds anyway.