For those that advocate birdshot

I was thinking of testing at 20 ft. I am confident that even birdshot is going to hurt a heck of a lot at that range.

Where does one buy a frozen pig? I checked locally, and this was the only type of pig that I could find available for sale:


Guinea-Pig.jpg
 
I did find a birdshot gelatin test on the web. However, it was only of a light 1 1/8 oz field load of #4 shot. Still, the average penetration of the #4 shot at a range of 9 ft was 6.5 inches. And the wound is quite massive in size:


bird4_heavy.jpg



This sure looks like a lethal hit to me.


Now in contrast, I found a photo of a fellow who survived a hunting accident of being shot in the side with birdshot. I have no info about the range involved, but just by judging the size of this pattern, he must have been some distance from the shooter. Certainly you can contrast this pattern size here to the pattern size at 9 ft in the gelatin photo.


http://postarchives.entensity.net/082905/birdshot1.jpg


Still, though, I have got to think that this fellow must have been in terrible pain from this shot. The number of pellets here would also indicate to me that this was a rather small shot size. Remember that not all of the pattern would have hit him.

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Lance if that had been a man, instead of gelatin, he would not have been in any pain.
He would have been dead.
I have seen it many times on ambulance calls and the result was always the same. Dead Right There.
You get 9 inches of penetration. How thick is a human? Your chest wall tissue is like a deer's, it is maybe 2 inches thick, on a fat person 4 inches thick.
Get through that and all you have is stuff that bleeds a lot, like lungs and arteries.
Hit a man with a load like that in the torso and he will be in full cardiac arrest when the paramedics get there.
 
A buddy of mine was shot in the belly with bird shot across a small room. It messed him up and he has an awful scar but he lived. The guy who shot him didn't.
 
Lance if that had been a man, instead of gelatin, he would not have been in any pain.
He would have been dead.
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The reference to pain was in regarding to the hunting accident photo, which is not showing up for some reason. I agree that the gelatin shot would be 100% lethal.

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Using birdshot for home defense is laughable... But whatever

Lots of good comparison information here:
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html
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Thanks much for posting that link. The gelatin tests there clearly prove that Birdshot is extremely lethal at close range.

I see absolutely nothing on that website to support your contention. In fact, the photos there conclusively show the birsdshot loads to be highly damaging.

Just look at this gelatin block showing #1 Birdshot ( yes, Birdshot that is between #2 and B in size, and works out to .16 caliber in size:


birdshot_1_kent_f.jpg



Penetration in the gelatin block was over 9 inches. The temporary stretch cavity was so huge, that it ripped open the entire gelatin block, as you can see in the above photo. And here is a close-up of the permanent cavity, which is also enormous in size:


birdshot_1_kent_d.jpg



A load of smaller #2 Birsdshot also penetrated over 9 inches, and caused this huge wound:

shot_2_rem_express_b.jpg



And has been previously pointed out by others, even the lighter 1 1/8 oz load of smaller #4 Birdshot would have been very lethal. Here is another view of that gelatin block, and you can see how badly that block was shattered too:


bird_4_heavy_dove_rem_d.jpg



Again, thanks so much for providing this data that definitely proves your arguments against birdshot to be false.

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A buddy of mine was shot in the belly with bird shot across a small room. It messed him up and he has an awful scar but he lived. The guy who shot him didn't.
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Please ask him to visit this forum and post a photo of his scar in this thread. This would be a most interesting scar to examine.

He could then also relate to us more details about the incident, such as the type and caliber of shotgun used, as well as the birdshot size.

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People can live through amazing things. I knew a man who was shot from across the room with a 12 ga. 1100 loaded with #8 shot. Blew out most of his right lung. He lived. Buckshot would not have made a difference, but a couple of inches difference in shot placement would have.
 
Please ask him to visit this forum and post a photo of his scar in this thread.
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He won't do that. He doesn't even like to talk about it. I saw it accidently once after I'd known him for several years and pressured him into telling me. The gun was a 12 gauge single barrel and all I know is the shot was bird shot. It took out half of his stomach, his whole left side is sunk in and a mass of scar tissue.
 
The point being that this guy shot himself point blank twice, apparently no arterial penetration, but much hamburger de' groin with birdshot and is in satisfactory condition the next morning. Granted his sex life won't be the same
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I must have missed the medical part of the artical that said "no arterial penetration." Where did it say no arterial penetration?

I have to agree with others, this incident seems to have nothing to do with the effectiveness of birdshot. From the sounds of things, it was just an appendage hit. This isn't a penetration issue as obviously birdshot has the ability to penetrate such an appendage. No doubt the shot passed right through, that which hit.

That is another thing, Don. Somewhere in the two blasts, I think you are assuming that they were full impacts, which certainly may not be the case.
 
With a shotgun loaded with birdshot, buckshot or slugs, there is no appeal once the trigger has been pulled and the shell discharged. Birdshot can be deadly, just as deadly as buckshot or slugs if fired accurately into a kill zone and at close range. Glancing shots with anything will wound and not neccessarily kill.
 
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