Walt Sherrill
New member
I continue to question the 1.5 million figure and the claim that the HP was the most widely used military handgun in history. Widely-used is the same as most-used. CZ makes the same claim about "widely-used" but doesn't limit it to military use.
As noted earlier, the US produced about 1.9 million 1911s for WWII alone, and nobody knows for sure how many 1911s have been made since WWII for military use.
I don't think MANY HP's could have been produced prior to WWII (1935-1939 or so). The using countries shown in the Wikipedia article about Hi-Power using countries show a lot of police and elite military units in small countreis using them, but darned few large militaries.
Israel and a few other firms (including FM) produced guns for the Israeli and Argentinian militaries under license, but those militaries were still relatively small when compared to the Allies and Axis militaries. Arcus also produced guns under license, but I don't know whether Arcus did any mnilitary contracts.
After WWII, a lot of guns WERE used by a number of military units and police departments around the world, but again in relatively small numbers in small units. (You can see this in the Wikipedia data.)
One history of the Hi-Power says that about 150,000 HPs were produced by the Germans after they took overr the FN factory during WWII, but it appears that relatively few were captured by the Soviets; bunches of Lugers were captured, and eventually made their way to the U.S. (I had one of those Lugers!) Inglis, which took over HP production in Canada during WWII, may have produced 300,000 HPs, but I've not seen any information about about where those guns went, except that they were intended for Allied use in China. All that said, the total of Inglis and German FN production for WWII is still less than a quarter of the number of the 1911s produced for military use during WWII alone alone
JMB's original design was a single stack, 9-round striker-fired gun. The French wanted at least a 10 rounder, and at least 9mm. Here's a link to the original patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US1618510A/en
The gun that was finally put into production had a lot of JMB's design features (many based on earlier Colt patents that had expired by the mid 1930'sm and which were not part of JMB's original Hi-Power design. The finished gun was arguably as much a Saive design as a JMB design.
While there was one or two double-stack magazines before the HP's introduction, Saive created the first really successful double-stack magazine. He was JMB's assistant at FN until JMB died in 1926, and then continued as project leader on the Hi-Power project until the gun was introduced in 1935. Saive and was later chief designer for FN. He is credited with improving some of JMB's machine gun designs, and for created the FN FAL.
As noted earlier, the US produced about 1.9 million 1911s for WWII alone, and nobody knows for sure how many 1911s have been made since WWII for military use.
I don't think MANY HP's could have been produced prior to WWII (1935-1939 or so). The using countries shown in the Wikipedia article about Hi-Power using countries show a lot of police and elite military units in small countreis using them, but darned few large militaries.
Actually, the Hi-Power was designed for the French Army, and they turned down the design. The Belgian military and some police forces in Europe quickly adopted the HP, but they were all relatively small units. The mag safety was apparently a part of the original French design requirements.T. O'Heir said:"...the Browning Hi-Power, as built by FN..." It was actually designed for European police use. Hence the daft mag safety. The mag safety was not in J.M.'s original design. Supposedly 1,500,000+ produced.
Israel and a few other firms (including FM) produced guns for the Israeli and Argentinian militaries under license, but those militaries were still relatively small when compared to the Allies and Axis militaries. Arcus also produced guns under license, but I don't know whether Arcus did any mnilitary contracts.
After WWII, a lot of guns WERE used by a number of military units and police departments around the world, but again in relatively small numbers in small units. (You can see this in the Wikipedia data.)
One history of the Hi-Power says that about 150,000 HPs were produced by the Germans after they took overr the FN factory during WWII, but it appears that relatively few were captured by the Soviets; bunches of Lugers were captured, and eventually made their way to the U.S. (I had one of those Lugers!) Inglis, which took over HP production in Canada during WWII, may have produced 300,000 HPs, but I've not seen any information about about where those guns went, except that they were intended for Allied use in China. All that said, the total of Inglis and German FN production for WWII is still less than a quarter of the number of the 1911s produced for military use during WWII alone alone
JMB's original design was a single stack, 9-round striker-fired gun. The French wanted at least a 10 rounder, and at least 9mm. Here's a link to the original patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US1618510A/en
The gun that was finally put into production had a lot of JMB's design features (many based on earlier Colt patents that had expired by the mid 1930'sm and which were not part of JMB's original Hi-Power design. The finished gun was arguably as much a Saive design as a JMB design.
While there was one or two double-stack magazines before the HP's introduction, Saive created the first really successful double-stack magazine. He was JMB's assistant at FN until JMB died in 1926, and then continued as project leader on the Hi-Power project until the gun was introduced in 1935. Saive and was later chief designer for FN. He is credited with improving some of JMB's machine gun designs, and for created the FN FAL.