FN Surplus Hi Powers

[Drm50]

I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.

The #1 complaint on Portugeese HP is the triggers. The model 70wins were the
safety. I don't know what the complaint on BAR is I was never into them. I owned a couple early one and had no trouble with them. I don't pay any attention to Brownings unless FN. From what I understand you can take a HP
from Portugal and have it fitted by a smith and have same gun as FN, since the
parts supposedly came out of Belgium FN. There are a couple good books on
Browning FN guns but I don't know if they are new enough editions to go into the Portugal guns.

 

[armednfree]

I always wanted to shoot one of these shoulder stock models. Just to see how far I could hit something.

 

[WVsig]

I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.

The reason for my comments is that there is a ton of misinformation about FN Herstal assembling guns in Portugal. People do not know the history of the BHP and the FN Herstal plant in Viana Portugal. FN acquired/built the factory in Viana Portugal in 1971-1972 IIRC. BHPs were assembled there sometime after that. There is no definitive date but it is pretty well accepted that the BHP was assembled there in order to reduce labor costs prior to the "Assembled in Portugal" rollmark.

The rollmark which sparks so much mystery and misinformation appeared in the late 70s on Browning rollmarked guns. That rollmark "Assembled in Portugal" is not present on FN rollmarked guns. There are lots of rumors and myths as to why it is on the Browning rollmarked guns but none of them have ever been confirmed by FN that I can remember. The fact is that since somewhere after 1971-1972 ALL BHPs produced by FN were assembled in Portugal. As Burgs pointed out these are production level guns. They are not hand fitted hand built custom guns. They were high volume production line guns. They are high quality but production none the less. It does not matter if the "Assembled in Portugal" rollmark is on the gun or not after a certain date, that only FN Herstal only knows for sure, all BHPs were assembled in Portugal.

FN Herstal has a long history of making changes to the BHP in order to simplify production and lower its production cost. Most of the changes including the move to external extractors, epoxy finishes, changing the bluing process, cast frames etc.... all were done to make the BHP cheaper to produce. The move to Portugal is consistent with that. People who are knowledgeable BHP fans know this. There are reasons to choose an older FN Herstal assembled gun vs one assembled in Portugal but it is not really about quality. It is more about materials, frame dimensions, bluing, sights, safeties, intended uses etc... Most if not all of the big time BHP fans I interact with understand this. As do all of the top BHP smiths. There is a lot of love for older BHPs like T series guns which helps drive their prices up but most of it is hype. IMHO having owned pre T guns, T series, C Series, MKIIs, MKIII transitional guns, MKIIIs etc....

My other comment was that Browning has never produced a BHP. They were once the importer of the FN Browning Hi Power and later became a wholly owned subsidiary but they have never been the manufacturer of the pistol. The gun bears JMBs name but it is not really his design, but that is a topic for another thread.

In the end like any other production gun there will be good and bad examples of all vintages of the BHP. Where it was assembled, its vintage and the rollmark on it are not always indicative of quality.

 

[WVsig]

I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.

The #1 complaint on Portugeese HP is the triggers. The model 70wins were the
safety. I don't know what the complaint on BAR is I was never into them. I owned a couple early one and had no trouble with them. I don't pay any attention to Brownings unless FN. From what I understand you can take a HP
from Portugal and have it fitted by a smith and have same gun as FN, since the
parts supposedly came out of Belgium FN. There are a couple good books on
Browning FN guns but I don't know if they are new enough editions to go into the Portugal guns.

There are crappy BHP triggers of all vintages. The information that you are posting is not accurate. It is an overly broad generalization based in someones opinion which is being repeated as truth.

The reality is that somewhere in the 1970s all BHPs were assembled in Portugal to save labor costs. I have seen it time and time again where someone claimed their FN Herstal assembled gun was superior to the Portugal one but in reality they are holding a guns assembled in Portugal. One of the biggest offenders were the late 90's MKIIIs with FN rollmarks. CDNN blew them out under $500 and they advertised them as all Belgium guns when in reality they were the same as the Browning rollmarked MKIIIs but did not have the "assembled in Portugal" rollmark. People think they bought something special or better but in the end they didn't. It was still a good deal I wish I had bought 100 of them back then.

 

[Fishbed77]

I have 2 recently-imported surplus Hi-Powers that I've acquired in the last year.

One is a force-matched and refinished (parkerized) Israeli-marked Mark III, and the other an all-matching Mark II with original (and scratched/worn) matte blued finish. I replaced the recoil on spring on each out of habit, and have done no other work to them.

The all-matching gun feels tighter, and was clearly shot very little, but both are reliable and accurate shooters.

 

[WVsig]

I have 2 recently-imported surplus Hi-Powers that I've acquired in the last year.

One is a force-matched and refinished (parkerized) Israeli-marked Mark III, and the other an all-matching Mark II with original (and scratched/worn) matte blued finish. I replaced the recoil on spring on each out of habit, and have done no other work to them.

The all-matching gun feels tighter, and was clearly shot very little, but both are reliable and accurate shooters.

That makes sense that the matching gun would be tighter. Were they Mach 1 guns?

 

[dogtown tom]

Drm50 I have had several FN Browning HPs and like amount of clones. The only ones that came close were some under Mauser than were made in Germany after WW2.

Mauser never manufactured a Hi Power clone or copy.
FEG of Hungary did manufacture a Hi Power clone with "Mauser" rollmarked on the slide. FEG would have put "Lexus" on a pistol if they thought it would sell and are well known for manufacturing counterfeit/fake Hi Powers with FN markings.

Once Brn started farming out to Portugal they weren't the same quality gun.

Horsehockey.

They were assembled not fitted as they were at FN. Some of the clones are not
bad when compared to the Portugese models but not near as slick as the originals from FN.

As noted above the only FN Hi Powers marked "Assembled in Portugal" were those imported into the USA by Browning Arms. Those imported by FNMI, FNUSA, Cassi, Vector, etc were not marked as such.

 

[Drm50]

By the time they got into mark series they weren't quality of original models reguardless of
who made them. The HPs marked Mauser were first made in Germany. They are stamped
Germany near trigger guard if so. I had one a couple years ago and still have pictures of it.
I don't keep any but original models and have had enough of them apart nobody is going
to convince me the newer series has the fit & finish of the older ones. They were cost cutting during this period just like everyone else in gun business. If you have some and they
make you happy that's all that counts. I'll stick with my older models of Brn HPs just as I
do with other brands. There is a point of time that fit, finish and other cost cutting measures
were used by all the major gun manufactures. In Brownings case that's why some guns were made in Japan, and FN parts assembled in Portugal. Guns made the old way couldn't compete with new modern methods.

 

[dogtown tom]

Drm50 By the time they got into mark series they weren't quality of original models reguardless of
who made them.

Being that the Hi Power MkII were marketed specifically to LE/Mil with their parkerized finish, you could argue that they weren't the same quality. But those guns were manufactured side by side with the commercial polished blue Standard models......same factory, same tooling, same machining, same everything but the finish and cosmetic changes to the slide and barrel ramp.

The HPs marked Mauser were first made in Germany. They are stamped
Germany near trigger guard if so.

Again, Mauser NEVER manufactured a single Hi Power pistol. Those were made by FEG of Hungary. This is old, old "news".

FEG also made Hi Powers with "Luger" on the slide, I suppose you know where the Luger factory is?
You confuse guns made under contract vs actually manufactured by the company who's name is on the slide. The Browning BDA .380 wasn't made by FN, but by Beretta. It has all three companies (Beretta/FN/Browning) markings on it.

I had one a couple years ago and still have pictures of it.
I don't keep any but original models and have had enough of them apart nobody is going
to convince me the newer series has the fit & finish of the older ones. They were cost cutting during this period just like everyone else in gun business. If you have some and they
make you happy that's all that counts. I'll stick with my older models of Brn HPs just as I
do with other brands. There is a point of time that fit, finish and other cost cutting measures
were used by all the major gun manufactures.

I too have FN Hi Powers from pre war, Nazi occupation, post war, T & C series as well as MkII and MkIII.
I won't disagree that a parkerized MkII isn't the quality of finish on my T's.....but that isn't a QUALITY OR MANUFACTURING ISSUE.....it's a deliberate MARKETING issue. Same as with the polished blue MkIII's vs the MkIII's with the black epoxy finish. Both finishes manufactured side by side with the other. Imagine that.

In Brownings case that's why some guns were made in Japan, and FN parts assembled in Portugal. Guns made the old way couldn't compete with new modern methods.

You have a near total misunderstanding of FN firearm manufacturing.

 

[Ibmikey]

I have fourteen Hi Power pistols (FN) and five FEG Hi Powers from Israel ( four of these are consecutive numbers) half of my FN pistols are from Israeli contracts. Of all the pistols only one a Browning marked “Capital” is marked assembled in Portugal although several are 1976 “C” series and 245 from the eighties and nineties. Of the two cast frames only the Capitan is Portugal marked and that pistol has the nicest high polish blue of any H P I have seen.
My “collection” consists of: Firstyear of production Belgian Army issue, Inglis 0T series, Eseries, post war, T Series, Browning Capitan, Mk II, Mk III pistols all of which get shot on a regular basis. The FEG pistols are clones of the Mk II and can pile brass with the best of the FN’s....love em’ all.

 

[Fishbed77]

That makes sense that the matching gun would be tighter. Were they Mach 1 guns?

The force-matched Mark III was likely one of the last guns sold by CDI before their warehouse fire put them out of business. The matching Mark II came from Mach 1.