FN Magwells Overly Flexible

[Dragline45]

Saw this video and was pretty shocked at what I saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdTsFB1ejo8

The magwell on this FNX Tactical is extremely flexible and soft, almost like a hard rubber, and was causing the mags to stick and not drop free. At the price FN sells their guns, I find this very unacceptable. There was a thread in another forum in response to this video, and pretty much everyone who had an FN ran to the safe to see if theirs did the same, and sure enough it did. Apparently this has been a problem going back to as early as 2010. I have owned polymer guns from most of the big names, and not a single one will do this. Not that I really had any interest in FN's, but this pretty much solidified that I will never buy one.

It's not even an issue with heat either, if you read the update in the info he wrote

NOTE: After being inside my house in the A/C for several days, it still flexes the same. Probably did before as well, don't think it's a heat issue.

 

[TunnelRat]

Not that I really had any interest in FN's, but this pretty much solidified that I will never buy one.

So an issue you saw on YouTube about a pistol you never owned nor had any interest in owning has convinced you to never own anything by that company? I'm sure FN will miss you.

 

[Dragline45]

So an issue you saw on YouTube about a pistol you never owned nor had any interest in owning has convinced you to never own anything by that company? I'm sure FN will miss you.

Yep, pretty much. But that's entirely besides the point. Do you really find this acceptable in a $1000+ handgun?

 

[TunnelRat]

What is it I am finding or not finding acceptable? One case of a problem on YouTube? In that case I'm working on something for you.

 

[Dragline45]

What is it I am finding or not finding acceptable? One case of a problem on YouTube?

I guess you missed the part where I said in another forum, in response to this video, that several other people checked their FN pistols and they all did the same exact thing, and another poster said this has been a problem for a while now.

 

[TunnelRat]

I compiled the list below to help you with future pistol purchases. I saw all of this on YouTube at one point or another (and experienced a number of them myself). The pickings for what you'll be able to own are pretty slim.

Glocks - brass to the face will plague you
S&W M&Ps - terrible triggers and patently inaccurate in 9mm
Springfield XD/XDMs - the grip safety won't allow you to get a proper grip when hurt and you'll get killed because you can't defend yourself
Ruger SR9s - barrel peening and lack of quality control
HK USP/P30/HK45 - terrible triggers that border on unshootable
HK VP9 - trigger bar spring will break
SIGs - current QC is spotty with MIM parts that will break on you
Beretta 92 - the locking block will fail on you or the slide will come off and hit you in the face
Any 1911 - a veritable death trap with its lack of reliability

 

[TunnelRat]

that several other people checked their FN pistols and they all did the same exact thing

I don't doubt it. I have a number of pistols that I can flex the magwells in, to that degree no and I won't pretend that I can. But I'm not sure several people qualifies as a disaster. As for the failure he was having, I know people firsthand that have had that issue with other polymer framed pistols because their grip on the frame was so tight that the magazine couldn't release properly. My point is the FNX has been on the market for a while now. It's hardly a failure and has been relatively popular. Best bet would be to call FN and gauge their reaction. He sent CS pictures but my experience from just about every manufacturer is that emails go nowhere, you have to pick up the phone. Or you could post it on YouTube, cause a stir, and get a butt load of views.

 

[Dragline45]

Glocks - brass to the face will plague you

My Gen 4 17 does not throw brass to the face, neither does my buddies 19. That problem was fixed long ago and was an issue when the Gen 4's were first released.

S&W M&Ps - terrible triggers and patently inaccurate in 9mm

Triggers can be replaced easily and for pretty cheap. I have also shot probably have a dozen M&P 9mm's, none of them were inaccurate, and I actually shoot them better than Glock's.

Springfield XD/XDMs - the grip safety won't allow you to get a proper grip when hurt and you'll get killed because you can't defend yourself

People have been using grip safteys for over 100 years with no problem, this isn't a matter of inadequate materials being used either like with the FN.

Ruger SR9s - barrel peening and lack of quality control

Owned an SR9, the barrel peening gets to a certain point then stops in the majority of the cases, as mine did. Many of the cases are overblown and not an actual issue.

HK USP/P30/HK45 - terrible triggers that border on unshootable

That's your opinion, and can easily be remedied.

HK VP9 - trigger bar spring will break

Will break? No, it CAN break, just as any part can break on any gun.

SIGs - current QC is spotty with MIM parts that will break on you

ALL companies today use MIM parts, and no, and again, they CAN break on you, not WILL as if it's written in stone. As far as spotty quality control, the same accusation has been made against every single firearms manufacturer around.

Beretta 92 - the locking block will fail on you or the slide will come off and hit you in the face

The locking block has a recommended service life, when you get close to that 20,000rd mark, you replace it, no different than changing out a recoil spring at 5,000rds. And the slide coming off and hitting you in the face was corrected decades ago, that was a problem very early on and will not happen on any Berettas made in the past 30 years.

Any 1911 - a veritable death trap with its lack of reliability

Alright there....

I see that I struck a nerve, you must be a big fan of FN, but don't pretend that what you are seeing in that video is acceptable, especially since this is how their pistols are across the board according to the countless threads I have read in forums since seeing that video.

 

[TunnelRat]

If you look about 6 feet over your head you'll see my point. That point is that on YouTube and the internet in general we can find dozens of stories, and to an extent much more widespread than several, of all those failures I listed. Yet I see that somehow you were able to generate explanations for all of those or write them off (as well you should). Yet you can't do the same for FN? I don't own any FN pistols currently. But it seems to me that your ability to forgive all those other stories and not excuse FN shows that you have a pretty strong bias against them. Or you can't admit when you've erred.

 

[Dragline45]

Well considering FN has known about this for years, and hasn't done anything to remedy it, or even recognize it, I find that unacceptable, especially when the gun costs $1000+ Many of the problems you listed aren't actually issues, and the ones that were, were problems with the guns when they were first released, and were quickly remedied. This is not the case with FN.

 

[TunnelRat]

Well considering FN has known about this for years, and hasn't done anything to remedy it, or even recognize it, I find that unacceptable, especially when the gun costs $1000+

That same logic applies to many of the complaints I put against those other manufacturers too.

Many of the problems you listed were problems with the guns when they were first released, and were quickly remedied.

Not in all cases.

This is not the case with FN.

You know this how? Did you contact FN CS? Did you check the manufacture dates of all the pistols with problems? Or are you simply sharing a good YouTube yarn with the appropriate indignation of the collective bandwagon?

 

[Dragline45]

Whatever man, this is getting tiring. You seem to want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Just putting this out there as a point of reference. Take it as you want.

 

[TunnelRat]

Whatever man, this is getting tiring. You seem to want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Not so. What I dislike more than anything else are definitive judgements of quality across an entire brand based on anecdotal information. For instance, you say all those problems with Glocks are fixed. I've got a Gen 3 Glock 19 2013 production in my safe right now that disagrees and problems still pop up regularly on Glock Talk, at least certainly well passed the initial release. So who's right, you or me? I don't know. I don't have enough information to draw a conclusion. I do know that both reading of problems and experiencing them firsthand didn't stop me from buying more Glocks or from carrying the other Glock 19 I have that runs like a top. I also know the two FNXs I owned ran like champs for thousands of rounds and while the magwells did flex more than some other brands, they were nowhere near that bad nor did the flexing cause malfunctions in my case. There are also numerous people in the comments of that video with the same pistol saying they have never experienced problems like that.

If one story of a problem, or several stories of a problem, are enough to keep you from buying a pistol then my point is that the same is true of just about every manufacturer. If you're going to come down on one then you have to come down on all. To go as far as to say what you saw on YouTube and read online has convinced you to never buy an FN product, then neither you nor I should own any pistols because the internet and YouTube are full of stories of malfunctions. The YouTubers with big channels will tell you that no videos garner views like videos of malfunctions.

The proof in this pudding will be how FN deals with the problem. If he calls and they do nothing, then shame on them and their stock deserves to go down. Every manufacturer can make a lemon, how they deal with it is what sets them apart. As for your repeated point about do I find it acceptable on a $1000 gun, I wouldn't find it acceptable on a $200 gun if it causes failures. But in close to 80 pistols I've seen something unacceptable from every single manufacturer. That doesn't mean I swear them off.

 

[RodTheWrench]

Agreed Tunnelrat. I think the OP drew a broad conclusion then got defensive when it seemed you threw it in his face, though.

FWIW, I just checked my $589 FN-X9 and there is little - if any - appreciable Maxwell flex. Same with my G22. A little, but not anything to write home about. Or the manufacturer either. Both guns have run like typewriters since day 1.

I've picked up black guns that were sitting in the sun for 15-20 minutes and they were HOT! I'd take this guy's experience with a grain of salt.

 

[JohnKSa]

Assuming the video is legit, that particular gun is defective and needs to go back to the manufacturer. If it can be flexed that much while it's still low enough temperature to be touched with bare hands then something's wrong with the polymer.

Yes, it's true that most polymer pistols have magwell walls thin enough to be flexed a little bit, but not like the one in the video. Heating up the polymers typically used in pistol frames won't significantly soften the plastic until the frame is hot enough to injure a person who touches it without gloves.

It looks like FN let out a pistol (or possibly a number of pistols) made with bad polymer.

 

[marine6680]

Most polymers used in the frames of firearms are a thermoset type that doesn't really melt or soften when heated... They burn before melting

Some may get a little soft depending on the type and mix of the polymer, but at much higher Temps than a person can hold onto. Well over the 120*f or so, that is hot enough to cause serious burns/damage.

One of the defining characteristics of the polymers used for these kind of uses is its rigidity. It should not flex like hard rubber, it should flex slightly though in areas that are thinner.

Could the polymeric been wrong, or the reinforcement filler (if used in their mix) missing...

Seems strange... If they report back with any updates, I would be interested in hearing.

 

[Skans]

"Beretta 92 - the locking block will fail on you or the slide will come off and hit you in the face"

"The locking block has a recommended service life, when you get close to that 20,000rd mark, you replace it, no different than changing out a recoil spring at 5,000rds. And the slide coming off and hitting you in the face was corrected decades ago, that was a problem very early on and will not happen on any Berettas made in the past 30 years."

I'm going to comment the above information about locking blocks, since I have some experience with a Taurus PT99 locking block shattering.

The first quote is wrong - if the locking block fails, the slide WILL NOT come off; it will likely lock up the barrel and slide without even ejecting the spent casing. The "fix" is to cut the barrel to separate the barrel and slide, otherwise you will gouge the soft aluminum frame, which is what happened to me.

The second comment is wrong because all a weak recoil spring will do is cause the gun to occasionally malfunction. A broken locking block will likely cause you to ruin your frame (because you will think that you are just clearing a stuck cartridge or jam) and have to have your barrel cut/replaced. Basically, if this happens to you, it stinks!!!

Third, Beretta re-designed the locking block making it more robust (more steel) several years ago (8?) to reduce the problems they were having with shattering locking blocks; I've been following this and I haven't heard of even one of the more robust locking blocks breaking in a manner that the old ones used to.

 

[marine6680]

I believe tunnel was being a bit facetious with that list... So no need to try to correct it Skans...

And they need to release the A3 version already... That's the one I want.

 

[DaleA]

Third, Beretta re-designed the locking block making it more robust (more steel) several years ago

Did Taurus do a redesign too?

Would the redesigned Beretta part fit a Taurus 99 or 92? I would ASSUME so but you know what happens when you assume anything.

P.S. And thanks for starting this thread, learned some stuff from it while I was here...I've made jokes about poly pistols in the past but still own some and never thought there would ever be anything like the Rubbermaid mag well in the first picture.

Hope everybody's still friends after all is said and done.

 

[Skans]

Did Taurus do a redesign too?

Would the redesigned Beretta part fit a Taurus 99 or 92?

These are both very good questions. I previously tried to research this and couldn't come up with any answers. A simple look inside of a new Taurus PT-92 would answer that question. As to fitting, a Beretta locking block, I don't know that either. Here is a good discussion with pictures on the Beretta locking blocks: http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=45325