FN "Five-Seven" and "American Handgunner" has really gotten my goat now

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Nifty little weapon system.

Too bad it isn't offered in a better defensive/LE caliber.

That little sucker is GREAT for punching holes in kevlar helmets and body armor, and making little holes in wounded people for their comrades to carry off.

Not so hot for stopping bad guys in their tracks as quickly as possible.

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Just a question about the 5.7 bullet. When did they put a steel penatrator in it? Per Gun Digest book of Assault Weapons 3d ed.
"The projectile is extremely lightweight, weighing only 22 grains, and is constructed primarily of a steel jacket surrounding a plastic core"(134).

Jason
 
Jeeze Kieth, no kidding!! Criminals armed better than the cops; just when did you stumble onto that tidbit of Information? Exactly where did i say anything about police officers being any better than any other citizen or disarming anyone? Where and if so please point that out to me. Some of you ought to check your attitudes at the door. Sounds like some of you got some real problems with police officers in general and our government. What's the matter someone disagree with your idea of utopia? Whenever someone chooses to disagree, it's the old "us vs them" crutch comes out to prop up your lame arguments about the police being or feeling superiour to every other person in this country. Were just "citizens" like you, doing a job and trying to make a difference. Are there bad cops; without a doubt. But the vast majority are average people doing a job, hoping to make it home to their families in one piece and living a modest lifestyle.

[This message has been edited by 12-34hom (edited November 27, 1999).]
 
12-34, its odd that when I state that civilians have wider choice of carry weapons than cops who are limited by what their department issues, you reply:

>>>>>Jeeze Kieth, no kidding!! Criminals armed better than the cops; just when did you stumble onto that tidbit of Information?<<<<<<

You'll note that I mentioned CITIZENS but that you read that as CRIMINALS. I think this Freudian slip says it all. Maybe you should check your attitude at the door and don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
I sure some LEO will be pissed but by definition they are civilian. According to my dictionary a civilian is "A person following the pursuits of civil or nonmilitary life." Unless the LEO is in the military (MP, CID, NIS, SP, etc) by the normal definition they are civilians.
 
12-34hom-I like to state first off I'm glad I don't live in ia(sic).

So let me get your argument right before I go on.

Let's deny honest citizens any weapon that may be useful for them in self defence because:

1. They are just a bunch of untrained gun slingers that are going to jump in and shoot up the town next time criminals start a gun fight.

2.Reguardless of any threat to civilians, we can't allow them to have weapons which may hurt us.

3.LEOs are smarter than the average joe and can handle having this kind of firearm, but the little guys might freak out and start popping off caps at cops.

Man, you are just another jack booted thug.

Does anyone remember back in 1987(?) when congress decided it would be a good idea to make illegal for "civilians" to purchase new fully auto weapons. This law was passed even though there has never been a case of a class III weapons holder commiting a murder.

Now here's the punch line, a few months later after the law was passed, a LEO (remember, they are the only ones smart enough to responsibly handle these weapons) murdered an
imformant with a class III weapon. So much for trusting LEOs.

To this day, class III weapons holders are THE safest gun owners in the U.S.A.

12-34hom-I know it's hard to believe, I know you can't understand why these classIII weapon holders aren't out busting cops on there ass or just shooting up the town. I know this information is just spinning in your little ticket writing mind.

How can this be? these guys aren't even LEOs?

As far as Cops being able to handle weapons, truth is very few can. Like I said, most diehard gun owners are btter shots than most
LEO and Military( especially REMF).

It all boils down to what I've said before, either you trust the honest citizen to own a weapon or don't. I think you don't.

Resticting honest citizens doesn't stop criminals, they can obtain those weapons, or as other have pointed out, find other ways to defeat body armor.



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The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"
 
Jimmie: I'm glad you don't live in Iowa also, just stay right where you're at, thank you very much. Although i do like your choice of verbige, ie... "Jack booted thug" sure beats the tired old names i'm used to being called by persons that don't have anything else constructive to add to this discussion. Kieth, freud? really, sounds like there are a few around here that could use his help big time...... think i'll go outside now and argue with a telephone pole see how far that gets me.

[This message has been edited by 12-34hom (edited November 27, 1999).]
 
Could not the same effect be achieved by converting a glock to fire the 7.62x25mm with some of the chezc made ap bulle3ts for the CZ26 subgun.

Is this at all possible?
 
Keith, I vote for option 1. the American Rifleman is thin enough these days, without wasting valuable pages (especially with expensive color pics) on guns that:
a) I can't purchase,
b) is probably irrelevant to American LEOs,
c) isn't likely be be used by US military.
 
Jason Kitta: Your reference is six years old. In the years since, FN switched to a heavier projectile with a duplex core of steel and aluminum.
 
I really can't see what role this new FN cartridge is supposed to fill. An M16/M4 5.56x45mm is far superior, performance wise, to FN's P90 5.7x28mm. From what I understand FN is having a hard time selling the 5.7x28mm cartridge, P90 subgun and Five-seveN handgun because current weapons and ammunition already do the job that FN's new products are intended for. To the dismay of FN, the 5.56x45mm/.223 Remington cartridge has been "rediscovered" by both the U.S. Army (the M4 carbine) and American law enforcement.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Gentlemen, (Dan Webster rolls in his grave)

I realize that a full-moon has just passed.
However, I would have expected the effect to have subsided by now. I would make a general request that each review the policies to which was agreed upon being granted posting authorities to the TFL forums.

Regardless, despite the rather entertaining and animated knee-jerk responses to a trolling post, the thread has attained that length at which we call for closure.

Thank you.
Mykl
 
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