I think that the premises set up by DougB in his initial question have been set aside. He originally talks about an H&K 91 or a FN FAL copy. Not an original! When comparing the copies of these two rifles to the M1A, there is no comparison. The M1A is the best choice by far. It is a legend and rightfully so.
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FN FAL, HK G3, or M1A?
- Thread starter DougB
- Start date
DougB:
As you mentioned in your post above, the M1A is a future possibility. Thankfully there will be a variant of that fine weapon that will be legal to purchase in CA after 01 Jan. 2000. So, as you put it, for a H&K or FAL (or clone thereof), it is indeed "now or never".
To make this simple, yes, the M1A is a very good rifle. However, it's not so much better that you should abandon the other two choices. Both the FAL and the HK-91 are very capable military rifles but the FAL has the advantage for you. Here's why: Currently, you can buy an Imbel receiver from several sources for about $300.00. A decent metric parts kit (Steyr-made Austrian STG-58 is most common) will cost about $200.00. That receiver is FN-spec and is a high-quality chunk of steel; I would not hesitate at all to use one of those to build a gun. The best part is that this high-quality receiver is available NOW. The only thing available for the H&K is the cast aluminum Federal receivers and the stamped-steel Hesse receivers - both of questionable quality. The *good* receivers for the H&K are the Portugese-made FMP parts, which are true to H&K specifications. Unfortunately, the FMP receivers are hard to come by, you're down to mere days remaining to get that gun or bare receiver.
If I were in your shoes, I'd order that Imbel receiver NOW and request overnight shipping to your FFL holder. Get the receiver before the deadline, then get an STG-58 parts kit and have a nice semi-auto FAL assembled. Don't wait too long on the parts kit, though. Those will dry up eventually too, or at least increase in price.
Hey, you can always save your pennies for that M1A later, right? Have fun.
As you mentioned in your post above, the M1A is a future possibility. Thankfully there will be a variant of that fine weapon that will be legal to purchase in CA after 01 Jan. 2000. So, as you put it, for a H&K or FAL (or clone thereof), it is indeed "now or never".
To make this simple, yes, the M1A is a very good rifle. However, it's not so much better that you should abandon the other two choices. Both the FAL and the HK-91 are very capable military rifles but the FAL has the advantage for you. Here's why: Currently, you can buy an Imbel receiver from several sources for about $300.00. A decent metric parts kit (Steyr-made Austrian STG-58 is most common) will cost about $200.00. That receiver is FN-spec and is a high-quality chunk of steel; I would not hesitate at all to use one of those to build a gun. The best part is that this high-quality receiver is available NOW. The only thing available for the H&K is the cast aluminum Federal receivers and the stamped-steel Hesse receivers - both of questionable quality. The *good* receivers for the H&K are the Portugese-made FMP parts, which are true to H&K specifications. Unfortunately, the FMP receivers are hard to come by, you're down to mere days remaining to get that gun or bare receiver.
If I were in your shoes, I'd order that Imbel receiver NOW and request overnight shipping to your FFL holder. Get the receiver before the deadline, then get an STG-58 parts kit and have a nice semi-auto FAL assembled. Don't wait too long on the parts kit, though. Those will dry up eventually too, or at least increase in price.
Hey, you can always save your pennies for that M1A later, right? Have fun.
California residency notwithstanding, I love my HK-91. Of course, for $$$ I spent fixing it up I could have bought a couple of very nice rifles, but I digress... My '91 has a PSG-1 trigger, an MSG-90 stock, the wide forearm with bipod, a ejection port buffer, a HK scope mount, and a Springfield Armory GenIII Government scope. It gets some wild looks at the range, even with the 5 round mags, but it outshoots most of the others in the safe. There are some things I don't like about it, namely, the lack of a bolt-hold-open-thing-a-ma-bob after the last round, and the location and ergonomics of the charging handle. If I was doing it again, I might opt for a Stoner SR-25 flattop.
Given the options you presented, Id stick with the M1A. There are BATF approved California legal "muzzle breaks" that closely resemble the original "flash hider" already available that would provide you with an excellent all-around weapon that would not legally be an "AW" under the new CA law, and as such, would not require you to register it. Mags are easy to find, although not as cheap as they once were. Of course, the same could be said for the HK and the FAL. My second choice recommendation would be a HK-91 clone, but stay away from the one with the "integrated scope mount" - it's trash. A thread protector or muzzle break, and a non-pistol grip/non-thumbhole stock would make this one a Non-AW and allow you to avoid registration also. I believe Guncompliantstocks.com is working on such a stock for both the HK and the FAL.
The only reason I wouldn't recommend the FAL is because of the number of poor quality kit guns on the market, and the possibilty of confusion with the various inch and metric parts, mags, and kits available. They (the good ones) are great guns with accuracy coming close to some good bolt guns, and are quite reliable when properly cared for, but it takes education, and experience to tell a "good one" from a, well, "not-so-good one" and as you have mentioned, your window of opportunity is closing rapidly.
Whatever you decide, don't forget to count the cost of any accesories, mags, spares, and ammo you will need. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
[This message has been edited by Spyderman (edited December 15, 1999).]
Given the options you presented, Id stick with the M1A. There are BATF approved California legal "muzzle breaks" that closely resemble the original "flash hider" already available that would provide you with an excellent all-around weapon that would not legally be an "AW" under the new CA law, and as such, would not require you to register it. Mags are easy to find, although not as cheap as they once were. Of course, the same could be said for the HK and the FAL. My second choice recommendation would be a HK-91 clone, but stay away from the one with the "integrated scope mount" - it's trash. A thread protector or muzzle break, and a non-pistol grip/non-thumbhole stock would make this one a Non-AW and allow you to avoid registration also. I believe Guncompliantstocks.com is working on such a stock for both the HK and the FAL.
The only reason I wouldn't recommend the FAL is because of the number of poor quality kit guns on the market, and the possibilty of confusion with the various inch and metric parts, mags, and kits available. They (the good ones) are great guns with accuracy coming close to some good bolt guns, and are quite reliable when properly cared for, but it takes education, and experience to tell a "good one" from a, well, "not-so-good one" and as you have mentioned, your window of opportunity is closing rapidly.
Whatever you decide, don't forget to count the cost of any accesories, mags, spares, and ammo you will need. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
[This message has been edited by Spyderman (edited December 15, 1999).]
Guys,
Thanks for all your advice and insights. I've read through all your posts - most several times.
I bought one of the new Century STG-58 FALs built on an Imbel receiver. I know that Century has a shaky reputation, but I ordered it for $589.95 through AIM Surplus, so even with a bipod and 10 additional magazines (reported to be new at $7.95 each), shipping, sales tax, FFL fees, etc. it's costing me just over $700 "out the door."
I know the Imbel is a good receiver, so I figure this isn't much more that it would cost to just buy a receiver, STG-58 parts kit, and the required U.S. parts. And it is a working, legal rifle before 1/1/2000. If some of the parts or assembly turn out to be sub-par, I can have it re-done later and still be within the price-range of having one custom assembled.
The M1A is also still on my list. In fact, I've bought new 6 USGI magazines (although four are unmarked - I was told they might be "CIA" or something, but who knows). They have the solid metal block on the edge that I'm told distinguishes them from after market. Anyway, I'll get the "California legal" version with the muzzel break when I can.
And, unless the law changes or I move, I guess I'll have to live without an HK91 (though they still have plenty of appeal to me). Anyway, thanks again for all the help.
Doug
Thanks for all your advice and insights. I've read through all your posts - most several times.
I bought one of the new Century STG-58 FALs built on an Imbel receiver. I know that Century has a shaky reputation, but I ordered it for $589.95 through AIM Surplus, so even with a bipod and 10 additional magazines (reported to be new at $7.95 each), shipping, sales tax, FFL fees, etc. it's costing me just over $700 "out the door."
I know the Imbel is a good receiver, so I figure this isn't much more that it would cost to just buy a receiver, STG-58 parts kit, and the required U.S. parts. And it is a working, legal rifle before 1/1/2000. If some of the parts or assembly turn out to be sub-par, I can have it re-done later and still be within the price-range of having one custom assembled.
The M1A is also still on my list. In fact, I've bought new 6 USGI magazines (although four are unmarked - I was told they might be "CIA" or something, but who knows). They have the solid metal block on the edge that I'm told distinguishes them from after market. Anyway, I'll get the "California legal" version with the muzzel break when I can.
And, unless the law changes or I move, I guess I'll have to live without an HK91 (though they still have plenty of appeal to me). Anyway, thanks again for all the help.
Doug
Destructo6
New member
Congratulations. If I had to do it again (build a FAL from a kit), I'd do on an Imbel receiver. Even if you have a few problems that need to be resolved by a smith, you're still doing well.
I take it you live in CA? Me too, my FMP receivered HK clone should be arriving in a day or two in order to beat the ban.
I take it you live in CA? Me too, my FMP receivered HK clone should be arriving in a day or two in order to beat the ban.