FMJ for Self Defense.

Kreyzhorse- "Give me a .45 and the bigger hole every time."

Strange, the first post in this thread contradicted your statement.

AmericanWolverine- "Let me get this straight. You tested a 45cal FMJ and a premium 9mm JHP To be more fair, test both in FMJ or JHP and see which does the job better"

Read the original post again. Both bullets were FMJ.

Clifford L. Hughes- "No matter how you stack the deck, the .45 ACP is more powerfull than the 9mm."

According to Winchesters website of the loads tested the 9mm produces 361 FPE vs. 356 FPE for the .45ACP.
 
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose?
Click to expand...

I'd use Hornady 230 gr FMJFP (yes flat point.)

And even then more than 1/2 the time it shoots through humans.

Read the latest Ayoob FIles in the American Handgunner and you will see a case where a man with a Ruger .45 fired five times with five hits and the 230gr FMJ all exited the bad guy.

BTW, energy figures mean squat if the bullets exit. And FMJ exit quite often. So yes, with FMJ I'd pick a .45. You would still lose some energy as the round exits but with the bigger hole it will do a bit more damage.

Deaf
 
Six & a half-dozen.....either one will do if you hit the vital spots. I'd probably pick 9mm just because it's what I have already.

And, before anyone brings it up.....why do we talk about all the German soldiers that died from the .45ACP rounds.....but never bring up all the American & Allied soldiers that died from the German 9mm rounds?.....
 
Suggest you read the Army Ordnance Board / Thompson /LaGarde tests as regards the effects of small and large projectiles on live animals/dead animals / human cadavers that took place at the Chicago stockyards. They may not have had the scientific equipment we have now but they got a pretty good idea of what was effective and immediate and what was not. I have read multiple reports of the Germans being shocked by the effectiveness of the .45 ACP round and their protests against its use as inhumane (as with our use of shotguns). Never read any reports about the Allies complaining about the inhumanity of the German 9mm round. I have put down enough animals to believe that the .45 is more effective than a 9mm. Obviously, it can be done with a .22 if placed correctly but you don't always have that luxury.
 
Larger hole and heavier grain bullet. 45 acp for me. Both will not have any problem penetrating but the slower larger grain 45 may transfer more energy or it may not. Would be nice to have a formula for transferred energy into a target.
 
Weapons and ammo- Glock 19 and full sized 1911
Click to expand...


I could flip a coin on 9mm vs. .45acp.

I would choose based on platform.


If I had to choose between say a SIG/Sauer P220 in 9mm or .45acp, then I could make it about the caliber, but then I would be back to flipping the coin.
 
My opinion here is the 45 acp. Bigger bullet moving through the air like a freight train and will break bone when hit. Some have stated that they would like the extra rounds that 9 mm provide and again my opinion is if you do not get it done with 8 rounds of 45 acp then what makes you think that you will get it done with 17 rounds of 9 mm?
 
Most of the replies seem to be offering pre-formed opinions rather than responding to the photo posted in the OP.

Granted there are limitations to ballistic gel testing and the sample size was one round of each caliber, but I find it interesting that the performance is so similar and that for whatever reason the wound channel of the 9 mm appears to be wider.

I appreciate the post from the OP. It isn't the end-all, but it is worth considering.
 
Looking at a still photograph of a gel block doesn't tell the whole story. If you could watch a slow motion video of the block as the round passes through it and see how high it jumps and how far back it is moved you would be able to make a much more accurate evaluation. If the round only penetrated 18 in. into the block, but the block jumped 6 in. off of the table and jumped 10 in. towards the back of the table then a lot of the energy dissipation will not be described in a still photo taken after everything stops moving. While I certainly appreciate the efforts made by the OP it only shows a small part of the big picture. I have been shooting different handgun calibers at hard and soft targets since long before the internet (thanks a lot Mr. Gore) and my opinions are based on what I have seen, not on popular internet theory or magazine articles.
 
Last edited:
TailGator- This is what I figured would happen. Preformed opinions on caliber selection.

Drail- In this test, the .45ACP penetrated more water jugs, leading me to believe more energy was deposited in the gel block. However, I dont think there is any significance there, considering the energy levels are so low to begin with.

Also, im not doubting you, but I just find it hard to believe the Germans were complaining about how inhumane the .45ACP was when you consider the vast arsenal of weapons we used that were much more effective. Besides, according to most peoples opinion on the effectiveness of the .45, I would assume the Germans would never have a chance to complain about it being inhumane. :D

I did this test with several others, and we all agreed that the blocks reaction with each shot was so close and mimimal that noone could identify one over the other if they hadnt previously known which caliber was going to be fired.
 
Last edited:
According to Winchesters website of the loads tested the 9mm produces 361 FPE vs. 356 FPE for the .45ACP.
Click to expand...

On paper:

My 2000 Mustang GT has 350hp

Someone else's Honda Civic with a turbo charger has 215hp

That Honda beat me in the real world.


Get my point?

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you on the topic. I find these 9mm's VS .45ACP debates amusing. I have my own $0.02 ($0.01 after Obama taxes me) but that depends on too many variables to answer and takes me to a place I don't like to go.

Let's just put it this way, people who have been in gun fights. Or know they will be in gunfights (LE) that I also personally know...Carry 9, 40, and 45. Premium hot loads. All don't feel under gunned at any time. Unless rifles come in. Then S.R.T. is called in. Those apes are always fun.
 
Yawn. With today's hp bullets, the difference between 9 vs 45 are alot closer.
That's why I stay out of these caliber wars and just use a compensated 10mm for ccw.
 
I don't think that it matters a whole bunch since both 9mil and .45 fmjs poke small holes through the target. If I have no choice, I'd take the fmj that is most likely guaranteed to make the bigger hole, the.45.

I've just begun to read Quantitative Ammunition Selection and the implications of using fmjs are unappealing. According to the model in the book, depending upon the weight, speed, and caliber, fmjs can go 24-36 or more inches deep. That can't be good.
 
I find these 9mm's VS .45ACP debates amusing.
Click to expand...

This has been tested for over 100 years. There is no difference, never has been.
Click to expand...

No more needs to be said. Just another X caliber vs Y caliber thread. Unfortunately some will feel the need to argue this for another 100 years.
 
If I had to choose between 9mm and .45 FMJ ammo it would be simple for me .45 ACP. Why, easy I have a .45 and I don't own a 9mm. Otherwise its shooters choice as to which one you like better. As some have said it would be more about the launch vehicle to me than the bullet size.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top