Flying with Handguns

T

TXGunNut

New member
Yep, read the old threads. Here's the dilemma; last few times I flew I was beside or directly behind the pilot. Colt .45 loaded, cocked & locked. :eek: Nope, don't fly commercial much but here we go anyway. My favorite "unknown risk" gun is a Colt Defender but I hate to risk a valuable old friend to baggage thieves. My everyday guns are a Kel-Tec P3AT or a J-Frame Smith. My Kel-Tec is an easily replaced gun but the little buggar draws, points and shoots like part of my hand. Don't want to lose that old friend.
I'll be in Denver for several hours or a few days doing difficult things and am considering going nekkid but would rather not go into an unknown city without a trusted friend. Last time I flew commercial with a sidearm was pre-911 and my firearms were "lost" in a checked bag even though I could legally fly armed @ the time. Yes, a little "gun-shy".
Any new FSA tips? Any probs flying AA? I'm a graduate of the LE Officers Flying Armed school but I'm no longer a peace officer and I'll be transporting my mother, not a fugitive felon. I'll need to pick up a small hard case to put in my checked bag, seems I "loaned" mine out years ago.
Any tips? Warnings?
TIA
 
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FLEOSA, TSA, airlines...

1st off, It's good to do research or learn more before you travel but please note; DO NOT think any of the forum posts are any kind of legal, binding authority. Please consult a practicing atty or do your own checks prior to flying.
It's called the error-net for a reason! ;)

That said, If you are a former or retired sworn LE officer, I'd look into the Federal Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act. This is the US law President George Bush signed to allow sworn/retired LEOs(federal state & local) to carry concealed firearms nationwide. Some terms & legal conditions may apply. Atty David Wong wrote a detailed article about these new US laws. Wong also markets a travel guide to US gun & knife laws too.
I'd check with the airline for SOPs or corp rules RE; weapons or firearms. See www.TSA.gov too for updates & regulations. I read a gun press item about 4 years ago that advised using a TSA/FAA approved security lock, keeping the firearm(s) unloaded & printing out a paper copy of the TSA or private airline guidelines to take to the airport.
Go to the departure airport with plenty of time to check in or be cleared. Be polite and speak in a clear, calm voice.
I flew on Southwest in 2007 from Florida to PA in the summer w/o any problems. I purchased some Remington 125gr JHP .38spl rounds to use with my Ruger GPNY revolver.
For more details see www.Handgunlaw.us or www.Gunlawguide.com .
 
From what I understand, you want a TSA lock on your outer suitcase, but a non-TSA lock (only you can open it) on the internal hardcase. Ammo has to be stored separately, in its original packaging. The airline will give you a tag to put outside the hardcase, but inside the suitcase, that will announce the presence of a checked firearm.

And, as ClydeFrog indicated, check with your specific airline, in addition to the TSA regs. Each airline might add its own restrictions, on top of the Federal ones.
 
Ammo has to be stored separately, in its original packaging
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It does need to be separate but I have flown several times with the full legal load of 11 lbs of ammunition with most of it being in MTM plastic cartridge cases. They do weigh the ammo though...one time I had 17lbs...and got called back to security right when my plane was boarding, oops. Thankfully my wife was still in the parking lot.

When you check in at the airport the case should be unlocked. You'll have to tell the clerk you are transporting a firearm at which point they will ask to see it. Open up the case, sign the unloaded firearm placard, and then get it inspected by a TSA agent. Once that is finished you lock it up and retain the key. No one else can mess with. The whole process can be daunting at first but its pretty easy when you aren't in a hurry. I think the worst part is having to publicly display your firearms at the check-in counter to the clerk. It seems I always find myself in front of a whole plane worth of people eye-balling my hardware and the icy glares of everyone who thinks guns are for nutjobs. So much for buying a discreet locking aluminum hardcase :mad:

The advice here is good: check your airlines regulations the day before your flight. For handguns I have always used the hard plastic case that the gun came with (H&K, S&W) with a keyed padlock.
 
The ammo can be in the same suitcase if the gun is in a separate hard case inside the suitcase. Theft is always a concern; nothing you can really do about it. I use the smallest TSA-approved locks available, to make it look as though there isn't much of value inside. No baggage lock is going to stop a thief, so why bother. The amount of ammo allowed varies between airlines. A TSA agent told me that reloaded ammo is forbidden, but I've never seen that written down. Give yourself plenty of extra time to do the whole rigamarole.
 
Each airline has its own rules that may differ slightly from TSA regs, so check the airline's website first.

That said, I fly from Denver to visit family in Louisiana fairly often and check my G23 every time. The process is exceptionally easy. I use a Pelican hard case and run a cable lock through the slide of my G23. I keep the ammo in my shaving kit.

When you get to the counter, let them know that you are transporting an unloaded firearm and hand them the locked hard-case. Usually, they just ask if it's unloaded, but sometimes they may ask you for the keys while they take it in the back to verify. I also advise them that I have a box of ammo in my checked luggage. They'll give you an orange tag and you'll put that with your locked case into your checked luggage, which you will then lock.

Again, check or call your airline and check the TSA website, but the process is very easy and painless.
 
Guns & ammo; kit and or kaboodle...

I too was going to bring up ammunition, which the Southwest 2007 SOP stated using a container that could close(like a box or the factory packaging) but I just decided to buy some .38spl JHPs in PA. I went to Bee's Guns near Saltsburg PA. Not the friendliest chaps but they had some decent self defense ammunition.
As I stated, keep a cool head, speak in clear level tones and inform the check in staff or airline employee that you have a unloaded firearm in a secured case that you'd like to declare.
Don't yell or wig out. There were people directly behind me that heard what I said to the Southwest staff member but stayed calm & unmoved.
I had a blue NYPD ballcap on too, ;) .

CF
stay safe and have a good trip
 
Thanks, all.

I've read the TSA regs and even the airline regs, mainly looking for the tips not contained there. Guess I'm off to Cabelas for a lockable hard case and a TSA lock or two. I hope they have one similar to the one linked above, I like that, may even use it to secure a gun in a car someday.
 
I have flown many times with a handgun in my checked bag and it's never been lost. They do take extra care of it when you have a handgun in your bag. Most of my experience has been with SWA and Continental. I have always used an inexpensive plastic case with 2 tiny padlocks. You know the cheapest kind that use to come with luggage, etc. Put the unloaded gun in the case along with the loaded magazine not in the gun. I also put my Spyderco C07 knife in there as well. Lock it and put it in your bag where you can get to it at the counter to check in. You will need to fill out a tag and place it inside the case and re-lock it. Apparently the xray machine can also read this tag. Then lock you bag with one of those TSA approved combo locks. They can open it wit a master key on the bottom if they need to. You won't have any problems and the setup cost very little. When you drop your bag off at the xray machine let them know it contains a firearm and your bag will move to the front of the line usually. Just stand there to the side until it clears the xray and goes on the conveyor. If they decide to open the bag after the xray This happened to me one time because something indicated possible bomb during the xray scan. If that happens they will take your gun out, swab it and put the swab into another small machine to confirm. The TSA agent asked if the bag was mine and said he needed access to my gun to confirm that there is no bomb in the bag. He was very calm and it seemed routine. I think my gun had some powder residue on it and that scanner was set very sensitive. It only happened once and I think it was in Tampa. If you use something with a lock they don't have a master for you will need to open it for them. Thats why I use the little cheap luggage locks on a plastic pistol hard case and the TSA lock. That way they can access it with their own key anytime they might need to without destroying any of my property. Enjoy your trip and I'm sure you won't have any issues.
 
a lockable hard case and a TSA lock or two.
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The gun case may NOT use a TSA lock.

YOU must be the only person that can open the case containing the gun.

A regular old padlock is needed..

You can TSA lock a suitcase holding the gun case, but NOT the gun case.
 
That's right, Brickeyee. Regs say the inside lock should only be accessible by the passenger. The suitcase I'm taking will be better secured w/ two TSA locks. I found a TSA approved locking hard case w/ cable @ Cabelas today, they also had the TSA locks. Pretty flimsy but they're good enough to satisfy TSA. All they'll do is discourage tampering. Been firing my carry gun a bit lately so I cleaned it today @ the range to hopefully pass the sniffer test.
Still thinking about going nekkid but will be good to have the required equipment and knowledge if I need to fly with a weapon in the future.
 
49 CFR 1544.203

(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly permit any person to transport in checked baggage:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in the baggage is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and

(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the flightcrew compartment,.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(g) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

NEVER SURRENDER THE KEY OR COMBINATION TO YOUR LOCKED GUN CASE. IT IS A VIOLATION OF THIS FEDERAL REGULATION. To do so is breaking the law. I carry a print out of this page with me on flights.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.12.3.10.3&idno=49

I have been through this so many times you cannot imagine with uninformed TSA agents and Federal Air Marshalls. If TSA needs into the bag during screening, you must wait at the airline ticket counter until the bag has cleared screening before going to the gate, they must either deliver the bag to you to be opened under your supervision OR you may be escorted into the secured area to supervise the opening of the case. I have done both. KI actually had a TSA agent tell me that it was okay because he was a federal officer and I mention that just because my father had been a supervisor of a squad in the FBI responsible for bank robbery, he was not allowed to rob banks. Federal law applies to everyone, even the TSA.

The TSA have updated their own site as well, but not necessarily what I have encountered:

TSA inspects all firearm cases at the ticket counter. (NOT WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED IN ALL AIRPORTS)

Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative (THAT IS TRUE) to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.(THIS IMPLIES THAT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE KEY MAY BE SURRENDERED AND OUT OF THE OWNERS SIGHT, NOT TRUE. IT MUST REMAIN UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION. THE DO THE INSPECTION IN YOUR PRESENCE)

If travelers are not present and the security officer must open the container, TSA or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.(THEY DO NOT OPEN IT WITHOUT YOU. CORRECT)

Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Travelers may not use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). (NOTE: MANY AIRLINES AND TSA DO NOT KNOW THIS PART OF THE LAW)

Ammunition may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows packing guidelines described above. (NOTE: MANY TSA DO NOT KNOW THIS PART OF THE LAW. I flew our of Evansville, IN a few years ago and ran into this. Fortunately I was travelling with two checked bags and complied. I reported the incident to the area screening supervisor at the Louisville airport the next day and requested a couciling session for the officer.)

Carry this printed with you as well when you fly:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
 
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Evening at the Improv....

I'd save the jokes & sarcasm for open mike night at the Improv.
;)

The TSA, FAMs and airline staffs have a hard job. You can make a valid point or disagree with a TSA employee's actions but as I posted before; be polite & stay calm.

Being rude, hostile or to argue will slow everyone down and be a real hassle.
 
Just a note: The TSA locks are far from secure they are one of the easiest locks to pick and can be opened so the tatteltale indicator will not trip:eek:.
 
I THINK the idea of TSA locks are they are coded so THEY can open them with their keys and not just cut them off for inspection.

Attached is where behind-the-scenes at airport someone tried to pry and bang open the Gunvault to steal my carry pistol on way to AZ transitting a major metropolitan airport. They couldn't stick the cable-tethered vault down their pants and couldn't walk away with my 30 x 12 x 24" suitcase either. Ammo was checked in in separate luggage an hour and a half earlier.

Police intentionaly tried to make me miss flight -- my girlfriend had already checked in and passed through security and was watching the cops take their sweet time to come over. Airline had to call them four times. We could see them strolling around from where we stood. So delayed the airline escorted me through security ahead of everyone to make sure I made my flight after an hour and a half check in (plus a half hour on line to start the process)! This was NOT TSA -- it was special big-city airport cops who somehow have been given the authority to check guns transitting through this international airport. At least it wasn't the regular cops of the city who are just complete a-holes there -- so much so I've watched TSA officers tell them to go get lost.
 

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Gehrhard, same thing happened to me at the Indianapolis airport. The airport cop even called in the serial numbers on all my pistols to see if they were stolen. This was about 10 years ago. The 'group' commandeered a Southwest Airlines baggage office all because I wouldn't surrender the key to the gun case. Me, two Northwest Airlines employees, TSA officer, TSA supervisor, TSA manager, two Indy airport idiots, and one Federal Air Marshall. TSA had to bring my suitcase outside the secured area to open and inspect. When they did the alarm on the 'hatch' went off because they had it open too long. Enter the Indy Airport cops. Told me to give TSA the keys and I presents the CFR quoted above and that they were outside their area of responsibility. Airline security is a federal function of the TSA, not local police. The TSA agent asked his boss if he needed to fill out an incident report and he did. Began asking questions of me, unfortunately he was not very specific. I had addresses in three different states, about 5 or 6 phone numbers, and so on. Then he asked for my SSN. I said no. Cop says quit being a pain in the ass, you have to give it to him. I informed Barney Fife that there were 23 valid reasons for a federal employee to ask for a SSN and he must declare, in writing, why he is allowed to ask for it and that TSA isn't one of the valid reasons. TSA agent understood about identity theft and said he didn't need it. I had a nice discussion with the Marshall. He tried to trip me up, but he ended up getting tripped up. Come to find out the day I was leaving was the day that governors from all over the country were arriving in Indy for a conference. Who knew? Tried to make me miss the flight, but I had arrived two hours before departure and still made it, barely.

In Oklahoma City they came down and got me from the gate, after having cleared me to go to security, and then escorted me back through security to catch the flight. The airlines have been very accomodating.
 
So far, so good. TSA guy at check-in (D/FW) had read the same material I had but he didn't do a chamber check (1911), other than that we got along fine. I guess one look @ me and my old pistol he figured we'd been around. TSA presence very heavy here, no idea why so many folks. And yes, no funny stuff, can only imagine how old that gets.
 
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