Evan Thomas
Inactive
Moved to Law and Civil Rights. The rules of that forum now apply to this discussion, so if you're not familiar with them, please read them.
Florida Governor Rick Scott signs gun-safety bill into law, following Parkland School shooting.
- Thread starter smee78
- Start date
Precisely. It's "Shut up the Liberals" for the most part.So the country is finally safe from lunatics between the ages of 18 and 20 who buy long guns from FFLs. Huzzah!
Except for the benefit of arming teachers, that's something we've been trying to get in for DECADES.
Florida is a Concealed Only State, meaning you may not Open Carry except in Very Specific Circumstances.
However, they de-nutted the CC option by making it illegal for those Who Have A License,
to carry in school, even being a teacher/admin/worker...which is a clear violation of their 2A rights.
Scott knew there were pending lawsuits on this issue, so he threw a bone...
not one with much meat, as there are some severe restrictions on those teachers who wish to carry LEGALLY...
as SOME teachers I know have been carrying since Columbine, and they are NOT going to stop for any reason.
I would bet there are quite a few thousand I don't know about that are carrying as well.
Until we adopt the Israeli method of School Protection, our students will ALWAYS be at risk.
There it is, in black and white. The current US Methods FAIL on every level.
The schools don't have restricted entrances...multiple unprotected and unguarded entrances mean
that Anyone at Any time can enter a school at will and cause a massacre.
Most schools are protected solely by a Chain Link Fence. Nothing Else.
Most schools also have multiple portable buildings which add to the problem...
College campuses are the worst, multiple buildings spread out over a large area with ZERO protection
other than Campus Security...and quite frankly, few of them are ready to deal with a terrorist.
What has to be done is a Ground-Up reconstruction of every school in the USA...
which frankly, ain't gonna happen.
The only other real option to provide sufficient safety to students is SOLEY TO ARM TEACHERS...AS NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK.
We just saw 4 cops sit outside of a school where there was an active shooting and be total Cowards...
they all stayed OUTSIDE and failed to enter and engauge the shooter. 100% Cowardice.
Then the SWAT officers who DID go in just got SUSPENDED for going in without telling Admin their intentions.
Think about that or a little while...if you aren't peeved to the max, you should be.
So that means the ONLY thing that stands between KIDS and a terrorist, are the teachers.
Granted, some will only secure their room and fire only if the shooter enters...that's human.
But there are a few Vets and former Leo's and some ballsy Civilians who WILL do battle FOR YOUR KIDS
against those terrorist scumbags...and that's what is needed. An actual On The Spot Response...
Because Broward County just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that LEO'S MAY NOT SAVE ANY OF THEM...
That nice School Resource Officer may be a coward.
The next 3 guys who show up may be cowards too. Sure were in Broward.
And THAT is the cold hard truth of what can happen at a school shooting.
Those LEO's were COWARDS, and they have to live with that, they also gave a huge black eye
to the rest of the Nation's LEO's...tell me EVERYONE in the USA, isn't wondering what
their LEO's will do at the next school shooting??? Tell me that every LEO isn't measuring his next response...
because now even the Conservatives are looking at 'em and wondering "Will They?"
Teachers are also asking themselves if they will be able to hold the line.
Many are arming up, both legally and illegally. Been going on since Columbine.
They'd rather give their lives and career in trade for keeping their students alive.
And that's what EVERYONE wants, except the anti-gun liberals and those who can't see
past their own fears to actually protect students FOR REAL.
If one is against arming teachers, they are quite simply FOR Kids Dying with ZERO Protection...
which is what has been happening here in the USA since Columbine.
So learn from the Israeli's, who are surrounded by countries that want to kill them badly...
yet they haven't had a successful school shooting since 1977 because THEIR TEACHERS ARE ARMED...
and well-trained...and their schools are set up to be Defensive Havens for their Kids.
Check it out, learn how they protect their kids, and implement it HERE, NOW.
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Have you bothered to read what is req'd to be one of those so armed ?TO'Heir said:
If not please go back to previous post and open up the law as written:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/7026/BillText/er/HTML
In particular, read lines 331-390
Then specify your objections.
Why would arming teachers be any “stupider” than arming anyone else? If you can’t trust someone with a gun, you just can’t trust them.
Being trustworthy is a people thing and doesn’t depend on what object is in your possession.
Some people think arming civilians is stupid. So let’s just not let citizens have guns, that will fix it.
Being trustworthy is a people thing and doesn’t depend on what object is in your possession.
Some people think arming civilians is stupid. So let’s just not let citizens have guns, that will fix it.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Any legislative bill that has a 207-line TITLE should be automatically thrown out as undeserving of discussion.
Florida won't be arming any teachers. In addition to requiring 132 hours of training (I've talked to a lot of LEOs and LEO trainers about this, and the most I've heard anyone recommend was 80 hours, most thought 40 would be enough, and I think that's more than necessary), the new law also does NOT include teachers who only teach in classrooms -- which is most of them.
The criteria to volunteer are essentially equal to what a SWAT team member gets, but these armed teachers have no law enforcement authority.
Seriously?
Florida won't be arming any teachers. In addition to requiring 132 hours of training (I've talked to a lot of LEOs and LEO trainers about this, and the most I've heard anyone recommend was 80 hours, most thought 40 would be enough, and I think that's more than necessary), the new law also does NOT include teachers who only teach in classrooms -- which is most of them.
Furthermore, it's not an option even for those few teachers who aren't excluded unless the sheriff of the jurisdiction chooses to establish the program.
The criteria to volunteer are essentially equal to what a SWAT team member gets, but these armed teachers have no law enforcement authority.
Seriously?
The Florida politicians obviously DON'T want to arm teachers, but they want to appear to have "done something" to allow teachers to be armed -- so they enacted a discretionary program, that at the whim of each county's sheriff may or may not be implemented, which if implemented by the sheriff imposes draconian, unrealistic, and totally unnecessary requirements on the volunteers. The hypocrisy behind including this in the law is mind-boggling.
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johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Most teacher receive 2-3 month paid time off throughout the year. It wouldn't seem that hard for them to attend these classes. The 132 hours is likely a one time commitment. about 16 8 hour days training. 11 12 hour days.
The details of the yearly training are the important part.
They do not.
Teachers are paid for time spent in the class only.
If they so elect, they are allowed to spread that amount over 12 months to even out monthly income.
Have you ever been a elementary, middle or secondary teacher ... particularly in a single-income family ?
Most have second and/or summer jobs just to make ends meet.
Aquila Blanca has it right.
There will be no classroom protection; and they'll continue to be sitting ducks in a shooting gallery once it starts again.
.
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JoeSixpack
New member
Yup, Confirm, Most of the teachers I had and know had some sort of secondary income during the off months.
My Cousin was a math teacher for a few years.. He loved it but the pay is terrible after he had a few kids he had no choice but to leave, with house payments and student loans they couldn't make ends meet even though his wife also worked.
This is what happens when laws are written by people who have no idea what they're talking about or when good ideas are gutted by compromise. It's also what happens when laws are written quickly after a tragic event.
<rant>
I am a H.S. teacher and have been for 17 years. I am also a U.S. Army veteran and NRA instructor. I have had my CWP for almost 20 years and I can shoot. Under this law, I would not be eligible to participate even if the school district and sheriff did. If given the opportunity, I would provide my own equipment and pay for my own training. 132 hours? Bring it.
Unarmed teachers can and do confront active shooters in these situations and they often die as a result. We are taught to be "caretakers", as some have suggested, and that means we are protective of our students. Good teachers care very much about the well-being of their kids and we do get attached to them. I can't speak for all teachers, but I would use deadly force to protect the innocent in a heartbeat.
I am responsible for supervising students and ensuring their safety every minute that I am at work, whether I have a class at that moment or not. I am on duty in the halls between classes, before school, after school, and during class change. If something happens during lunch or during my planning period, I am expected to jump in. If I have a class, my first priority is to protect them. If an attacker enters my room, I am the only line of defense and I am unarmed. And that makes me angry.
About teaching:
It varies by state and I can only speak for mine. I work under a contract that requires 190 days of work for 190 days of pay. It offers virtually no protection (right-to-work state) and that's the way I like it. I do not, and will not, belong to a teacher's union. The district divides my pay into 12 equal payments and I get them via direct deposit. I have no choice in the matter. I do get 15 paid sick/personal days, which I am strongly discouraged from using. I'm not complaining, I'm only setting the record straight. I knew the rules and the realities before choosing this profession. I don't complain about the money because I realize that I only work 10 months a year with great breaks and good benefits.
</rant>
<rant>
I am a H.S. teacher and have been for 17 years. I am also a U.S. Army veteran and NRA instructor. I have had my CWP for almost 20 years and I can shoot. Under this law, I would not be eligible to participate even if the school district and sheriff did. If given the opportunity, I would provide my own equipment and pay for my own training. 132 hours? Bring it.
Unarmed teachers can and do confront active shooters in these situations and they often die as a result. We are taught to be "caretakers", as some have suggested, and that means we are protective of our students. Good teachers care very much about the well-being of their kids and we do get attached to them. I can't speak for all teachers, but I would use deadly force to protect the innocent in a heartbeat.
I am responsible for supervising students and ensuring their safety every minute that I am at work, whether I have a class at that moment or not. I am on duty in the halls between classes, before school, after school, and during class change. If something happens during lunch or during my planning period, I am expected to jump in. If I have a class, my first priority is to protect them. If an attacker enters my room, I am the only line of defense and I am unarmed. And that makes me angry.
About teaching:
It varies by state and I can only speak for mine. I work under a contract that requires 190 days of work for 190 days of pay. It offers virtually no protection (right-to-work state) and that's the way I like it. I do not, and will not, belong to a teacher's union. The district divides my pay into 12 equal payments and I get them via direct deposit. I have no choice in the matter. I do get 15 paid sick/personal days, which I am strongly discouraged from using. I'm not complaining, I'm only setting the record straight. I knew the rules and the realities before choosing this profession. I don't complain about the money because I realize that I only work 10 months a year with great breaks and good benefits.
</rant>
Problem is.... what you describe as your mindset as being -- is sheepdog.
True sheepdogs scare the bejeezes out of the Teachers' Union types.
What I find interesting is the prohibition against the distributed defense of actual teachers being armed. Did I actually read that right ?
That pretty much leaves us w/ Admin types.
Oh yeah......
Aguila Blanca
Staff
To fully understand exactly who will be allowed to become a "sheepdog" under this new law we have to follow up the statutory reference, which I have not done. But it certainly appears to exclude the majority of teachers whose role is to be in a classroom and teach. This is why I regard the law as hypocritical and cynical. The politicians are taking credit for "arming teachers," while in the fine print ensuring that the majority of teachers aren't eligible for the program. And that's only IF[/b] the county sheriff decides to implement the program in the first place.mehavey said:
IMHO, any Florida resident should read the full text of the "arm the teachers" portion of this law, and then be enraged.
[Edit to add} Chapter 790.06 is the statute establishing concealed carry permits. So to begin qualifying for this program a teacher must have (or obtain) a carry permit -- which in Florida requires training. Then they have to undergo more firearms training than a police academy cadet. (I think -- I spent a couple of hours last night trying to research exactly what the basic POST training requirement is for a rookie officer, and I didn't find it.) Just look at this part:
What possible justification is there for requiring teachers to have to fire MORE rounds in training than police officers who will be on the streets every single day of their careers? This is insane.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
And I found the statute referenced in the exclusion, and it does mean that "teachers" will not be allowed to participate in the program.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...tute&URL=1000-1099/1012/Sections/1012.01.html
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...tute&URL=1000-1099/1012/Sections/1012.01.html
Teachers falling under this description are specifically EXCLUDED from participating in the program.