Florida debate: spin uncovered

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GoSlash, I'm on dial-up. Could you at least summarize the video, when you link to them? Not everyone has a high speed connection. Not everyone, who is on dial-up, wants to wait 20 or more minutes for the danged thing to load!
 
I'm on dial-up. Could you at least summarize the video, when you link to them? Not everyone has a high speed connection. Not everyone, who is on dial-up, wants to wait 20 or more minutes for the danged thing to load!
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The video starts off with graphics attacking "Faux News." :rolleyes:

It's an extremely paranoid rant that makes a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations against Fox News regarding somehow "rigging" voter panels interviewed after the Florida debate with the sole purpose of discrediting Ron Paul.

It shows one panelist, and then launches into a paranoid diatribe about him supposedly being a Bush-Cheney henchman based on some postings in the Free Republic internet forum. The video ascribes some username "headache" to him? It really wasn't clear what they producers of the video were going on about.

The whole premise of the video is that Sean Hannity is the living anti-Christ for daring to question whether a FoxNews post-debate website poll showing Ron Paul getting a 39% vote as having "won the debate" was really accurate or not.

At one point, the video shows a FoxNews clip of a moderator asking a post-debate panel of 40+ people for a show of hands as to who thought Ron Paul "won" the debate. Not a single person raises thier hand. The video then comically highlights the ONE person they accuse of being a Bush-Cheney henchman not raising his hand. The video then says SEE? SEE? CAN YOU SEE HOW RIGGED THIS ALL IS? IT'S OBVIOUS!!" I had to laugh at that point because there are 39 other people shown all sitting there not raising thier hand either.

I got the impression from watching the video that it was produced by Ron Paul supporters.

The video has this loud, booming music playing the whole time, with some kind of hugely annoying, high-pitched synthesized shrieking noise interspersed every 2 seconds.

I want back the 4 minutes I wasted watching it.
 
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Turns out the focus group wasn't as random or representative as FOX would have you believe and the audience was severely stacked.
Good news is they've been busted.
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Can this be the official moment when Paul's campaign jumped the shark? Pretty please?

Lets apply a little logic for a minute. If we assume that the guy from the focus group was a plant (apparently being a supporter of Bush/Cheney makes him a hack), there are at least 30-40 other people in the room. In order to believe what the website is alleging, the comments of this one man invalidate the perceptions of the remainder of the group.

As far as the guy being a plant, I'm not so sure about that either. I don't know how these focus groups are selected, but I'm fairly sure that the maker of the video doesn't either. The guy is from florida and is apparently really involved in politics. As such its not all that surprising to see him there.


As far as the boos and the ticket "conspiracy" guess who the majority of repblican voters are. While it may very well be true that the audience was filled with people who don't support Paul, I've got news for you, thats the entire republican base.

Of course, if these folks were just Romney and Guliani supporters, then it really doesn't make sense that they would be supporting Huckabee, Thompson and Hunter with loud applause which they did. That is of course unless its Paul who's out to lunch.


But being the skeptic that I am, does anyone have anything to support the "facts" on this video. You'll forgive me if I'm hesitant to believe what I see on youtube or the word of Paul supporters.
 
does anyone have anything to support the "facts" on this video.
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Here you go:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1914464/posts
http://the-edge.blogspot.com/2007/10/fox-news-modifying-people-meter-on-ron.html
http://www.rwof.org/Presidency IV.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9EWDB_zK4

Don't click that last link if you are offended by the F-word or if there are young children nearby...

thats the entire republican base
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No it's not. If that were the entire republican base, republicans would never ever win an election. Read the information at the third link if you want to know who the audience was.

The video starts off with graphics attacking "Faux News." :rolleyes:
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Why are you rolling your eyes? Fox News is propaganda. It's a shame that people don't realize it...

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
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Rob308 said:
cool hand luke said:
The video starts off with graphics attacking "Faux News.":rolleyes:
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Why are you rolling your eyes? Fox News is propaganda. It's a shame that people don't realize it...
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Which is different than CNN or MSNBC, how?

Fact is, news sources are not news and haven't been for quite some time. Yellow Journalism has been around since the mid 1890's and has only increased in usage, as it has been disguised as real news.
 
Which is different than CNN or MSNBC, how?
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Well Fox is much more biased than they are IMHO. You're right though, they are all propaganda. Fox just makes it a bit more obvious.

It's a good thing there's other places besides cable to get news from.
 
Actually, Fox is LESS biased than CNN.

Ever watch Hannity and Colmes? Hannity is conservative, and Colmes is an absolutely insufferably smug liberal who makes me want to punch the TV, who tries to bait guests into "admitting" that guns cause crime, all that.

CNN has no such contrasts. In fact, CNN just shamelessly used the CA fires to plug their "planet in peril" ALGORIAN specials to bring in more viewers and advertiser dollars.

Also, which debate was more fair to gun owners? Fox? Or CNN's YouTube farce where they chose the nuttiest "this is my baby" gun guy to show the masses, not any likely videos of people asking about the right to self-defense?

So who's biased, again?
 
Okay Manedwolf, you are right that Fox may be less biased on some things. You can't just focus on one issue though. Overall, Fox is much more biased to the right than CNN or MSNBC are to the left. Those two are actually center-left and Fox is very far to the right. You can't see it because you are a conservative.

Tell me, where was the so-called liberal media during the run up to the Iraq War? Why didn't they report on the illegal purging lists that Bush used to steal both elections? Why aren't they reporting on mountaintop removal mining? Why don't they tell us about Bush's connections to the dominionist movement? Why don't they ever report on the stories that liberals care about if they are so far to the left?

Hannity is conservative, and Colmes is an absolutely insufferably smug liberal
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Colmes is not a liberal! That's insulting to all real liberals. If he were he would be much harder on Hannity.

Here's the "liberal media"... if you watch a few episodes you'll see that they are much farther to the left than Colmes and CNN combined.

http://www.democracynow.org/

CNN has no such contrasts.
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What about Glen Beck or Lou Dobbs? It seems like they are conservative on many issues.
 
You can't see it because you are a conservative.
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That's a pretty easy one to throw out there! Does it occur to you that you may be blinded by liberalism?

Maybe Manewolf is just an every-day middle of the road American and you can't see that because of your blindness?

Works both ways!
 
grymster, I would have simply asked, when did he stop beating his wife?

Rob, stating that Manedwolf is conservative and therefore doesn't see the slant, is akin to me asking you the question above.

It is an insult to the intelligence of your opponent and the audience alike.
 
Does it occur to you that you may be blinded by liberalism?
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No. I am not blinded by any ideology. I don't think of myself as either a liberal or conservative. Neither of them are always right about things so I think they are meaningless. The problem is that they usually think they are always right. They start out thinking that their ideology is the good one, I start out thinking that I don't know if either side is right. I look at the facts instead of assuming things.

This is why I'm posting on a forum full of people who call themselves conservatives. I like having my views challenged so I can make sure they are correct.

Now I don't want to attack anyone personally, but many of you act like you are always right and everything "liberal" is wrong. You are like religious fundamentalists but your religion is conservatism. That's why I think I am right about this. Because I'm not a fundamentalist and I don't think I'm "blinded".
 
Here you go:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1914464/posts
http://the-edge.blogspot.com/2007/10...er-on-ron.html
http://www.rwof.org/Presidency IV.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9EWDB_zK4
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Gee, blogs and more youtube. :rolleyes:


Though I did find one thing interesting. From the free republic article...

Luntz was angry early on before camera's went live when he polled the group to make sure everyone there was undecided. A 21 yr old guy raised his hand and said he was supporting Ron Paul. Luntz absolutely lost it on this kid and said "Why in the hell did you not put that on your questionaire that was e-mailed to you? Why does it not shock me that a Ron Paul supporter would pull this kind of crap?"

"If someone else shows up you are being replaced and out of here...this room is for undecided."

So, according to this (someone who was actually there and participated in the focus group unlike the author of the video) Luntz did actually want a group of undecided republicans and didn't stack the group as slash and this hack suggest.

Thats funny, I vaguely remember someone saying something about that a few posts up:rolleyes:
 
Hey... Luntz is working for the GOP establishment. Ron Paul is a threat to his employers. He apparently sent out a questionnaire to people from blogs like FreeRepublic. If you watched the video I linked to you will see what he can do with questions. It's not that hard to see what he did...

Why does it not shock me that a Ron Paul supporter would pull this kind of crap?
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:rolleyes:
 
Why are you rolling your eyes? Fox News is propaganda. It's a shame that people don't realize it...
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No, Fox News does a far better job of unbiased, objective news reporting than does any other major news organization.

There has never been the lying in support of a political agenda, or outright faked news reports that are common on CBS, CNN, and NBC for example.

Many here in this forum will recall CNN's faked demonstration of the "enhanced lethality" of an "assault weapon."

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030520.asp#4

And perhaps you could point to anything Fox has done that even remotely compares to “Rathergate,” Dan Rather's presentation of provably forged Texas National Guard documents purporting to show George Bush failed to attend his required TDY assignments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathergate

And considering that many of Fox New's on air-talent, writers and producers have been hired away from CNN, PBS, ABC, etc. you're going to have explain how folks like anchor Bill Hemmer suddenly become right wing partisans when they leave CNN and start work at Fox News.

All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
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Oh that's right, the whole September 11, 2001 attack was a "faked inside job" designed to drag us into Afgnahistan and Iraq. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Hey... Luntz is working for the GOP establishment. Ron Paul is a threat to his employers. He apparently sent out a questionnaire to people from blogs like FreeRepublic. If you watched the video I linked to you will see what he can do with questions. It's not that hard to see what he did...
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Hey...all that is irrelevant. The cameras were off when Luntz made these comments. Questionnaires were sent out to get undecided voters. Whether Luntz asks "have you stopped beating your wife" questions has nothing to do with whether the room is full of undecided voters. The accusation by the Paulites is that this was a stacked focus group, and everything presented thus far contradicts that.

Case in point. Look at the guy who was singled out in the video for making the comment about how Paul was insane and tell me who his candidate is. I know its not Paul, but who is he going to vote for. Its impossible to tell from everything he said. Like it or not, he's apparently an undecided voter. In fact the only thing that the video pins on this guy is that he is way pro Bush. I've got news for you. So is the republican party. At least enough to elect him twice.

Because I hate Hillary or think Paul is a kook doesn't mean I've decided on a candidate.

It amazes me how people complain about spin and then produce something that is spin, just not as good.
 
Whether Luntz asks "have you stopped beating your wife" questions has nothing to do with whether the room is full of undecided voters.
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It does. Do you know what was on that questionnaire? How do you know that he didn't ask whether the war in Iraq should continue and only invite people who said yes? You don't and I don't either but there are things that make me think he did do something like that. That's what his job is, to make the polls say only what his bosses want them to say. The text poll showed that Ron Paul was in the lead. Why is the text poll so different from his poll? It's because he selected the people that he was polling.

They were all specially selected undecided voters, but they were undecided.
 
It does. Do you know what was on that questionnaire? How do you know that he didn't ask whether the war in Iraq should continue and only invite people who said yes? You don't and I don't either but there are things that make me think he did do something like that. That's what his job is, to make the polls say only what his bosses want them to say. The text poll showed that Ron Paul was in the lead. Why is the text poll so different from his poll? It's because he selected the people that he was polling.

They were all specially selected undecided voters, but they were undecided.
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I'm beginning to understand why Paul supporters think the way they do. Lack of logic.

Let me perfectly clear here. The accusation made by this piece is that these people were not undecided voters. They were plants from the guliani or romney or whomever campaign.

There isn't any evidence here to suggest that. Being for the war in iraq doesn't mean you've decided who you are going to vote for. Supporting Bush doesn't mean you've decided who you are going to vote for.

You keep coming up with these tangents that have nothing to do with what is being said here. The video is some 3rd rate hatchet job on fox. Your own article written by someone who was there contradicts 90% of what the video is alleging.


The whole ticket issue is stupid as well. Paul is the ONLY candidate to recieve boos. Each of the other 9 guys recieved roughly the same amount of applause. Thats should tell you something.
 
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