Flashlights, an interesting concept.
- Thread starter kraigwy
- Start date
Here is a link to several different styles of 200 lumen Streamlights.
http://www.nextag.com/Streamlight/200-lumen-flashlights/brand-html
Geetarman
http://www.nextag.com/Streamlight/200-lumen-flashlights/brand-html
Geetarman
Country Boy
New member
In a less than lethal situation, a powerful LED light in somebody's eyes does a good job of disrupting their OODA loop.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005EHL6O8/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00
Maglite XL200
170 lumens, 35 bucks.
I just got one. I wouldn't call it bright enough for "tactical"/dazzle use, but its damn bright and has a strobe mode.
IMHO-Bright enough to disorient, not bright enough to "dazzle". If I had the money Id get something in the 500 lumens range. Something that semi-permanently knocks out vision. But for $35 Vs $200...
On the other hand...
http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/p2x-fury-dual-output.html
$155 bucks, 500 lumens. This will blind an attacker.
Maglite XL200
170 lumens, 35 bucks.
I just got one. I wouldn't call it bright enough for "tactical"/dazzle use, but its damn bright and has a strobe mode.
IMHO-Bright enough to disorient, not bright enough to "dazzle". If I had the money Id get something in the 500 lumens range. Something that semi-permanently knocks out vision. But for $35 Vs $200...
On the other hand...
http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/p2x-fury-dual-output.html
$155 bucks, 500 lumens. This will blind an attacker.
Car headlights run somewhere in the 700-1200 lumen range.
Admittedly they can be really irritating, but if lights with 500 lumens output or more were really capable of semi-permanently knocking out vision or blinding people, the roads at night would be a massacre.
People routinely deal with having very bright lights shined in their eyes. It happens to us all the time and to the extent that it's a problem we instinctively know how to deal with it without being blinded.
Flashlights are very useful. Bright flashlights are even more useful and they're also cool. I've got an 850 lumen monster that I keep by the front door and it's really handy when I need a bright light. But it's just a bright light, it's not an effective weapon unless I swing it at someone.
Even if I caught someone off guard and gave them a good dose in the eyes, they would still be able to function even if they were somewhat impaired by a blind spot. Just like I keep from running off the road when I accidentally catch an eyefull of the sun around the visor when I'm driving and end up with a temporary blind spot in my vision.
It's certainly true that a defender can use a bright light to his advantage in a self-defense situation, but I think it's very easy and very common to overemphasize the effect that it is likely to have.
Admittedly they can be really irritating, but if lights with 500 lumens output or more were really capable of semi-permanently knocking out vision or blinding people, the roads at night would be a massacre.
People routinely deal with having very bright lights shined in their eyes. It happens to us all the time and to the extent that it's a problem we instinctively know how to deal with it without being blinded.
Flashlights are very useful. Bright flashlights are even more useful and they're also cool. I've got an 850 lumen monster that I keep by the front door and it's really handy when I need a bright light. But it's just a bright light, it's not an effective weapon unless I swing it at someone.
Even if I caught someone off guard and gave them a good dose in the eyes, they would still be able to function even if they were somewhat impaired by a blind spot. Just like I keep from running off the road when I accidentally catch an eyefull of the sun around the visor when I'm driving and end up with a temporary blind spot in my vision.
It's certainly true that a defender can use a bright light to his advantage in a self-defense situation, but I think it's very easy and very common to overemphasize the effect that it is likely to have.
Onward Allusion
New member
A bright flashlight will not blind anyone for an extended period of time, at least not the current technology. With regard to car headlights, one must keep in mind that it is a wide beam and when aimed properly is directed toward the pavement.
Highbeams on the other hand are just that, brighter headlights aimed further up. If everyone drove with their highbeams on, I guarantee you that there would be a heck of a lot more accidents at night. I'm sure some of us can remember back in the days in their misspent yewth, they used to do just that - flash highbeams and blind people on dark roads. Never me of course!
A 200+ lumen flashlight with a highly focused beam will blind a person if it is night-time dark (keyword dark when one's pupils are dilated) even if it is only for a few seconds. Precious seconds that count if you're trying to get away or shoot them.
Highbeams on the other hand are just that, brighter headlights aimed further up. If everyone drove with their highbeams on, I guarantee you that there would be a heck of a lot more accidents at night. I'm sure some of us can remember back in the days in their misspent yewth, they used to do just that - flash highbeams and blind people on dark roads. Never me of course!
A 200+ lumen flashlight with a highly focused beam will blind a person if it is night-time dark (keyword dark when one's pupils are dilated) even if it is only for a few seconds. Precious seconds that count if you're trying to get away or shoot them.
The light output range I provided encompasses both typical highbeams and lowbeams. I've been hit in the eyes many times with highbeams when driving at night and have never been temporarily blinded, nor had my vision temporarily knocked out.
I do agree that a very bright light shined in a dark-adapted person's eyes might buy you a second or two under ideal conditions, but even at close range I think it's an exaggeration to say that person would be temporarily blinded.
I've tested my various bright flashlights (100-850 lumens) in the dark by shining them at myself in a mirror, and while it's obviously unpleasant and does cause some level of visual impairment when trying to look directly at the beam (some pretty nasty, but small, washed out spots in your vision), I've never experienced anything I would equate with being temporarily blinded.
I do agree that a very bright light shined in a dark-adapted person's eyes might buy you a second or two under ideal conditions, but even at close range I think it's an exaggeration to say that person would be temporarily blinded.
I've tested my various bright flashlights (100-850 lumens) in the dark by shining them at myself in a mirror, and while it's obviously unpleasant and does cause some level of visual impairment when trying to look directly at the beam (some pretty nasty, but small, washed out spots in your vision), I've never experienced anything I would equate with being temporarily blinded.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
It depends on your dark adaptation state. If you were truly in the dark for 30 minutes, a Surefire in the face close up will make you wince.
But - the movie theatres with a show on are not total dark adaptation. A significant distance and it is just a bright spot.
I've been an opponent in very dark venue and guys with Surefire type flashlights are easy to pick off, esp. if they aren't aimed directly at you. Even if they are, you can shoot right at them. This is at large room distances.
But - the movie theatres with a show on are not total dark adaptation. A significant distance and it is just a bright spot.
I've been an opponent in very dark venue and guys with Surefire type flashlights are easy to pick off, esp. if they aren't aimed directly at you. Even if they are, you can shoot right at them. This is at large room distances.
My Surefire is 200 Lumen's, I think as it is sitting lens down in a Glock 9mm mag-pouch, very assessable.
Fairly close up, I think it would temp. blind a person, the stream of 9mm 147g non Plus P WW Hollow Points, following that flash of light, might do the trick.
Sixteen rounds to get it right!
Fairly close up, I think it would temp. blind a person, the stream of 9mm 147g non Plus P WW Hollow Points, following that flash of light, might do the trick.
Sixteen rounds to get it right!
I have seen a dozen threads on "tactical" flashlights.
Most posters don't think these lights are of much use, but most also agree they will disorient you or impact your vision for only "a few seconds".
Yet; in other threads on quick draw or a knife attack from 21 feet they make a lot over tenths of a second.
If you are in a armed fight with me and give me a few tenths of a second, that's an advantage. If you give me "a few seconds", you're dead before it starts.
If I'm armed only with a light and get those same "few seconds", I'm not there when you recover. You may have weathered the "minor annoyance" but I get to go home alive.
My 500 lumen light weighs about 2 ounces, and fits in any pocket. It's a worthy addition to any arsonal.
Most posters don't think these lights are of much use, but most also agree they will disorient you or impact your vision for only "a few seconds".
Yet; in other threads on quick draw or a knife attack from 21 feet they make a lot over tenths of a second.
If you are in a armed fight with me and give me a few tenths of a second, that's an advantage. If you give me "a few seconds", you're dead before it starts.
If I'm armed only with a light and get those same "few seconds", I'm not there when you recover. You may have weathered the "minor annoyance" but I get to go home alive.
My 500 lumen light weighs about 2 ounces, and fits in any pocket. It's a worthy addition to any arsonal.
I don't know, in a situation where somebody is shooting indiscriminately, pointing a flashlight at him is like yelling "I'm here, shoot this way!". If I had a gun, illuminating him for a moment to sight better will be a good idea, if I'm unarmed, I don't want to attract any more attention to myself than necessary.
Thoughts on this light?
900 lumens advertised, $16?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YJFM3KPZCC0RWK5TYSQ
900 lumens advertised, $16?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YJFM3KPZCC0RWK5TYSQ
The link has several reviews, and the reviewers seem to like the light but several mentioned that based on comparison with other lights they owned they thought it was closer to 500 lumens than 900. That's still pretty impressive.
Make sure you can readily get batteries for it.
Make sure you can readily get batteries for it.
kraigwy,Sorry I am slow to get back.Mines a Surefire G2 something.Search Surefire 200 lumen
FWIW,the OP was "non lethal when you are not carrying"and"I am not going into the theatre shooting"
Y'all write about whatever you want,no problem.My comments on the flashlight apply to the OP.I'm saying,no,I don't want to shine my flashlight at somebody who is shooting.
FWIW,the OP was "non lethal when you are not carrying"and"I am not going into the theatre shooting"
Y'all write about whatever you want,no problem.My comments on the flashlight apply to the OP.I'm saying,no,I don't want to shine my flashlight at somebody who is shooting.
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Dwight,
It's a SolarForce L-2. I picked it up with the weapons grade hardened bezel at a gunshow for $50. http://www.solarforce.hk/
Gorin,
If I start shining it around the movie theater, I'm gonna get nailed.
Same thing if you start blasting everywhere with a gun. Wait for the right shot.
But, if the BG gets up too close, I point it right in his face and give a 1/2 second burst. Then I'm gone with the wind.
If he doesn't see me, I won't gve myself away.
As with any tactical tool, tactics are everything.
It's a SolarForce L-2. I picked it up with the weapons grade hardened bezel at a gunshow for $50. http://www.solarforce.hk/
Gorin,
If I start shining it around the movie theater, I'm gonna get nailed.
Same thing if you start blasting everywhere with a gun. Wait for the right shot.
But, if the BG gets up too close, I point it right in his face and give a 1/2 second burst. Then I'm gone with the wind.
If he doesn't see me, I won't gve myself away.
As with any tactical tool, tactics are everything.
Thanks for the link on the FDA regulation of lasers, Glenn. This would effect commercial availability of industrial/professional-class laser products (controlled products/substances). 'Demonstration' lasers seem to be the class (exempt) of lasers you see in the store(s). The only federal criminal provision I found was analogous to the State crime of interference with operation of aircraft. Regardless, tort liability and potential criminal charges as well as the compromise of one's grounds for self-defense (with use of a laser to blind), would be enough caution against.
The Surefire's a little less than I remembered for a 200 lumens light, and 500 lumens doesn't seem a terrible stretch anymore. Cost for CR123A batteries seem to be getting less, as well. Thanks for the links, guys.
The Surefire's a little less than I remembered for a 200 lumens light, and 500 lumens doesn't seem a terrible stretch anymore. Cost for CR123A batteries seem to be getting less, as well. Thanks for the links, guys.
white lights/flash lights; Italian cruise ship incident(2011)...
I didn't read all the forum posts but wanted to add a few remarks.
The "tactical flashlight" & "white light" product line has greatly improved in the last 5-10 years. Strobe features, LEDs, IR-red light formats, Li battery designs, lenses, etc offer a lot to the armed citizen or officer(police, security, corrections).
I've even seen new "distraction" methods where you can toss bright white lights or strobes to distort an attacker(s).
Some common sense & proper method(skill training) should be included when using a small white light. I highly doubt a Surefire or 5.11/Blackhawk type unit would prevent a CO movie theater type assault but in a rapid, CQB(close quarters) type attack, a strobe or bright flash may give you time to flee or access another(better) weapon; a pistol, OC spray, Taser, etc.
In early 2012, I spoke to a former cruise line employee/entertainer who worked on a ship that was in the same area as the big ship disaster off the coast in Italy. I remarked how I'd tote a small white light to aid me if needed on a ship. White lights(flash lights) can be used for more than just defense.
ClydeFrog
PS: Gun writer & use of force instructor, Massad Ayoob has pointed out that flash lights can be toted with ease & do not have to be concealed.
I didn't read all the forum posts but wanted to add a few remarks.
The "tactical flashlight" & "white light" product line has greatly improved in the last 5-10 years. Strobe features, LEDs, IR-red light formats, Li battery designs, lenses, etc offer a lot to the armed citizen or officer(police, security, corrections).
I've even seen new "distraction" methods where you can toss bright white lights or strobes to distort an attacker(s).
Some common sense & proper method(skill training) should be included when using a small white light. I highly doubt a Surefire or 5.11/Blackhawk type unit would prevent a CO movie theater type assault but in a rapid, CQB(close quarters) type attack, a strobe or bright flash may give you time to flee or access another(better) weapon; a pistol, OC spray, Taser, etc.
In early 2012, I spoke to a former cruise line employee/entertainer who worked on a ship that was in the same area as the big ship disaster off the coast in Italy. I remarked how I'd tote a small white light to aid me if needed on a ship. White lights(flash lights) can be used for more than just defense.
ClydeFrog
PS: Gun writer & use of force instructor, Massad Ayoob has pointed out that flash lights can be toted with ease & do not have to be concealed.