Flash Over & A Little Dab Will Do You
- Thread starter JMI
- Start date
deerslayer303
New member
I was going to cast some .457's out of wheels weights, so this is not a good idea? I had a 30 gallon drum full given to me by a tire shop
I did a little research on wheel weights some time ago.
By and large wheel weights come in two varieties.
You have lead based weights on the one hand and non lead based weights on the other hand.
The non lead weights are very easy to isolate because they do not melt in a lead pot. (zinc based weights) They float to the top with all of the other stuff that comes off of all weights (primarily the steel clips)
So lets talk about the lead weights. My information here comes from a technical manager at what was then (two years ago) the primary supplier of wheel weights in the U.S.
She told me that there is no real reason to use anything in weights but lead. No reason to alloy the lead with other low melt metals. She said that the reason that other metals show up is that it is expensive to get rid of it.
She went on to say that the deliberate addition of metals for minor property enhancement never requires more than about five percent other metals (Tin Antimony, and Bizmuth are the most frequently used.) She estimated that her weights were typically signifiantly above 95% purity (She estimated consistent 97%) because everything in the lead that is not lead is more expensive than the lead and consequently the cost of manufacture goes up. This paragraph seems to contradict the previous paragraph but I did not catch it at the time.
She did add though that many weights are now being imported from China and that she has no idea what the allow of those weights might be.
I made some bullets from wheel weights, weighed them, and then compared the actual weight with the theoretical weight of a sphere of pure lead of the same diameter of the balls I had caste. I can not remember the specific numbers but I do remember that the bullets I cast were within one grain of the theoretical weight. It was a .454 ball with an actual diameter of somewhere around .455 and I think I was looking at a theoretical weight of something like 144 grains.
I do find these bullets to be slightly harder than Hornady bullets. But I have also developed a casting technique which provides me with a bullet that is twice as consistent (in terms of bullet to bullet variation in diameter) as Hornady's. (about one half of one standard deviation for mine in comparison with Hornady's)
I have a bunch of ship ballast which I was told was pure lead but I would bet that the person who told me that did not fully comprehend the definitiion of the word "pure".
The bullets I make from weights are about as hard as those I make from ballast.
If you are going to cast bullets, you might want to assume that they will come out a little harder than a pure lead bullet because it is difficult to ensure that the metal you use is pure. To me, the primary impact is the force required to load the chamber. Load with a press outside of the pistl and this problem goes away.
I have purchased a grand total of two boxes of bullets in 35 years. Both were Hornady's and both had consistency which I could easly match (actually beat)by casting.
My recommendation:
Cast your own bullets and don't be afraid to use wheel weights.
By and large wheel weights come in two varieties.
You have lead based weights on the one hand and non lead based weights on the other hand.
The non lead weights are very easy to isolate because they do not melt in a lead pot. (zinc based weights) They float to the top with all of the other stuff that comes off of all weights (primarily the steel clips)
So lets talk about the lead weights. My information here comes from a technical manager at what was then (two years ago) the primary supplier of wheel weights in the U.S.
She told me that there is no real reason to use anything in weights but lead. No reason to alloy the lead with other low melt metals. She said that the reason that other metals show up is that it is expensive to get rid of it.
She went on to say that the deliberate addition of metals for minor property enhancement never requires more than about five percent other metals (Tin Antimony, and Bizmuth are the most frequently used.) She estimated that her weights were typically signifiantly above 95% purity (She estimated consistent 97%) because everything in the lead that is not lead is more expensive than the lead and consequently the cost of manufacture goes up. This paragraph seems to contradict the previous paragraph but I did not catch it at the time.
She did add though that many weights are now being imported from China and that she has no idea what the allow of those weights might be.
I made some bullets from wheel weights, weighed them, and then compared the actual weight with the theoretical weight of a sphere of pure lead of the same diameter of the balls I had caste. I can not remember the specific numbers but I do remember that the bullets I cast were within one grain of the theoretical weight. It was a .454 ball with an actual diameter of somewhere around .455 and I think I was looking at a theoretical weight of something like 144 grains.
I do find these bullets to be slightly harder than Hornady bullets. But I have also developed a casting technique which provides me with a bullet that is twice as consistent (in terms of bullet to bullet variation in diameter) as Hornady's. (about one half of one standard deviation for mine in comparison with Hornady's)
I have a bunch of ship ballast which I was told was pure lead but I would bet that the person who told me that did not fully comprehend the definitiion of the word "pure".
The bullets I make from weights are about as hard as those I make from ballast.
If you are going to cast bullets, you might want to assume that they will come out a little harder than a pure lead bullet because it is difficult to ensure that the metal you use is pure. To me, the primary impact is the force required to load the chamber. Load with a press outside of the pistl and this problem goes away.
I have purchased a grand total of two boxes of bullets in 35 years. Both were Hornady's and both had consistency which I could easly match (actually beat)by casting.
My recommendation:
Cast your own bullets and don't be afraid to use wheel weights.
deerslayer303
New member
Thanks Doc for taking the time to write that up, and awesome read indeed. I have been casting lee 1 oz slugs out of the wheel weights and they always come out nice and shoot good. so I'm itching to cast some round ball as soon as the molds get here.
Clip on weights run 11-16 BHN, Stick on weights are 6 BHN, pure lead is 5 BHN. I use clip on weights for cartridges and stick on weights for muzzle loaders. I can tell you for a fact clip on weights are too large and hard for muzzle loading rifles. Reason I say too large is the harder the lead the less it shrinks when it cools.
Deerslayer,
The 457s might be hard to ram. I'm assuming you are shooting a ROA. The .454s might be easier to ram yet still seal the chambers. I don't know for sure but I think the ROA chambers are .453-4 or so. I've heard of shooters using .454s of pure lead in their ROAs in a pinch. The wheelweights would cast a little larger than pure lead so If you have a .454 mold they may come out as .455.
The 457s might be hard to ram. I'm assuming you are shooting a ROA. The .454s might be easier to ram yet still seal the chambers. I don't know for sure but I think the ROA chambers are .453-4 or so. I've heard of shooters using .454s of pure lead in their ROAs in a pinch. The wheelweights would cast a little larger than pure lead so If you have a .454 mold they may come out as .455.
deerslayer303
New member
Good Stuff I will cast one up and measure it. I also have a .454 mold on order. The good thing is that 30 gallon drum I got from the tire shop has stick on weights mixed in. I just hate melting those things, that glue on the back smells horrible! But what must be done must be done.
What do you guys think about the bags of shot you can get at sporting goods stores? is that pure lead? Or is one stuck with buying lead if it can't be gotten at a cheaper source?
What do you guys think about the bags of shot you can get at sporting goods stores? is that pure lead? Or is one stuck with buying lead if it can't be gotten at a cheaper source?
The stick on weights are very soft. The clip on weights are harder. If you can segregate them, do so then you'll have real soft lead which is even better for the muzzleloadng ammo.
Birdsghot is hardened with antimony. I melt it down and blend it with scrap lead bor pistol and rifle bullets. It is not soft.
Birdsghot is hardened with antimony. I melt it down and blend it with scrap lead bor pistol and rifle bullets. It is not soft.
Hawg wrote:
This statement is pure bull. I've been using wheel weight alloy for 35 years in ALL my muzzle loaders and C&B revolvers. You could shoot a patched stone out of a rifle, in fact, the first bullets WERE stones. The trick is to use a PROPER fitting patch.
A patched round ball (regardless of the alloy) never touches the bore. The patch does.
If you find it too hard to load a hard cast patched round ball, use a thinner patch than the patch you were using with the smaller pure lead round ball.
This statement is pure bull. I've been using wheel weight alloy for 35 years in ALL my muzzle loaders and C&B revolvers. You could shoot a patched stone out of a rifle, in fact, the first bullets WERE stones. The trick is to use a PROPER fitting patch.
A patched round ball (regardless of the alloy) never touches the bore. The patch does.
If you find it too hard to load a hard cast patched round ball, use a thinner patch than the patch you were using with the smaller pure lead round ball.