Fixed cylinder versus swing out?

James K, et al:

The .45 M1909 cartridge did indeed have a larger diameter rim. It was so large that six cartridges could not be loaded in a Single Action, they could only be loaded in every other chamber as the rims would overlap. The larger diameter cylinder of the New Service would accommodate six rounds, however.

Bob Wright
 
All the revolver ammuntion made at Frankford (and the Army issued nothing else) was of the intermediate length
Click to expand...

The .45 M1909 cartridge did indeed have a larger diameter rim.
Click to expand...

Do you know how these cartridges were headstamped?

How was civilian .45 Colt ammunition marked in the late 1800's (let's say between 1874 and 1900)?
 
DaleA asketh:
Do you know how these cartridges were headstamped?

How was civilian .45 Colt ammunition marked in the late 1800's (let's say between 1874 and 1900)?
Click to expand...

Cartridges made by Frankford Arsenal in the 1870s bore no headstamp, they were copper cased with Benet primers, and bore no similarity to commercial ammunition. Later cartridges were Boxer primed and were either tinned brass or plain brass. The H/S was always F A and the last two digits of the year, such as F A 89. This continued up through WW I. Some early .45 M1875 cartridges are H/S FA R 83, the "R" indicating "Revolver" but this was short lived.

Commercial ammunition of the era is pretty much as current practice. I have "UMC .45 Colt", "WRA .45 Colt" etc. Early black powder ammunition has a brass case with a copper primer, semi-smokeless with a brass primer, and smokeless with nickel primers.

Semi-smokeless powder was used in place of smokeless powder in handgun cartridges as it worked at lower pressures than the smokeless powder of the day while giving less smoke and flash.

Head stamps have always been placed radially around the head of the case and reading right-side up with the mfr. in the upper half and caliber designation in the lower half

Bob Wright
 
Further, as to headstamps, ammunition made by E. Remington never bore a headstamp. It is identified by the raised center portion around the primer, and that Remington only made ammunition of proprietary calibers, such as .44 Remington for example.

Bob Wright
 
Thank you for this thread

Just wanted to say thank you for posting, and adding to this thread. I am currently researching my next purchase. I strongly feel I am going to buy a Single Action Replica of some form, just a matter of which one. I must admit, I really like the look and feel of the Umberti 1860 Army conversion. But I am still unsure and in the market. This thread had a-lot of information for me. Thank you for sharing.

Jay
 
Lucas McCain wrote: "If fort had all S & W's but on occasion the quartermaster issued Colt ammunition which couldn't be used in the S & W pistols. Put that with politics and they lost out to Colt."

That didn't happen because, as noted above, the army NEVER issued .45 Colt cartridges, only the .45 Army, the short Schofield length. So no matter what kind of revolver the troops had, the issue ammunition would fit.

By the time the Model 1909 cartridge came along, the Model 1873 was long out of service and the Army didn't care two hoots that an obsolete gun would become a "three shooter" with the new cartridge.

Jim
 
I beg to differ with you there, JamesK, the Army issued .45 Colt length ammunition from 1875 to about 1875, these all from Frankford Arsenal:

100_44111.jpg


In addition, the Army had already issued, and had stores or, these rounds, the .44 Colt and the .44 S&W (later the American):

100_44061.jpg



100_52031.jpg


Further, there was also the issue of .50 Remington Centerfire for the 1871 Remington rolling block pistol. In fact, ammunition supply was a nightmare.

Bob Wright
 
From 1909 to 1920 S&W marketed a .38 S&W revolver, "the perfected", that combined some of the features from the swing cylinder design with a topbreak frame.
This fine looking piece had both thumb latch that pushed in a spring loaded arbor extension and the standard top latch.
Probably not much stronger than a simple top break but less likely to become loose with normal wear.

For those interested in a modern magnum chambered top break revolver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP412_REX
 
Last edited:
Wanted to say thanks Bob Wright. Been away from the computer for a few days. Once again the depth of knowledge available on this site is truly impressive. Thanks again.
 
Hi, Bob,

FA began manufacture of the .45 Colt ("long" Colt) in 1873, but the first production order for the short cartridge was issued in August, 1874, and it has been my understanding that production of the longer cartridge was stopped at that time and never resumed. (The Schofield was reportedly in use in the regular army as late as 1887.)

Could be wrong, not the first time.

Regardless of the exact dates, the short .45 Army cartridge was the only revolver cartridge issued from 1874/75 to the phaseout of the SAA in favor of the .38 revolver.

Jim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top