"fit" for combat

Actually, there's a good way to gauge stamina and athleticism --- a certain type of obstacle course. Problem in describing it is that the numbers (times) wouldn't mean anything.

I remember at Annapolis (Naval Academy), there's this course that takes about 3 minutes for a good athlete. Climbing up large walls, moving on your belly, balancing on beams, swinging a rope, etc. If you can beat out 80% of the other guys, you're pretty fit, I'd say.

There are other obstacle courses in the services that are also good gauges. At the Academy there were a few guys who went Seal later, and they have a realistic obstacle course that's also a good test. You beat out half the guys there (all Seals are fit), you're fit.
 
When in the AF, I loved the muscle bound folks, slower than all get out when it came to getting the heck out of dodge, gave the enemy something else to shoot at while I booked it outta dodge (just in drills, I wouldn't live a person behind in real combat).

At a flat out dead run, I could do the 1.5 (that's all we had to do when we were doing the run before it turned into the bike) in about 7 min (I know, slow by Army/Marine standards) but the "muscles" couldn't do it under 8 (I forget but I think we did have a 12 min time frame).

Or they could do the "girlie" (ducks real fast :D) thing and do the 2 mile fast walk.

Granted, at the end of the run it took me a couple more minutes to compose myself and fully catch my breath but I figure, if you need to get out of dodge, a fast jog just isn't going to do it, a good fast run, that may just save your life (or may not).

But in civey life, I can't do that anymore and I'm not muscle bound either. So the way I look at it:

1. Can I at least run at full speed to cover up to .5 miles away?

2. Can I do so while carrying an 8lb AR (on the back so it doesn't weigh as much), 1 can of ammo (in an ammo can, about 500 rounds boxed, over 1000 unboxed).

3. Can I do #2 while having either a shotgun (4lbs+) or a pistol (28oz) in my other hand?

Granted, I won't be all that fast but it's a plan. I do get funny looks in the neighborhood through when I do this :D

But, the fact is, I can't. My muscle mass and the muscles in my legs/arms are slowly being eaten away so my plan is this, hunker down and stand my post.

Wayne
 
18 minute mile lmfao, you could do 2 miles in that time. I did the mile and a half in 13:21 at 7200' altitude last month.

I work out every week and aerobically train also.
 
400 lbs bench press (doesn't matter your body weight; too bad if you're small)
600 lbs squat
135 lbs strict curl
4.6 in the 40 yard dash (4.5 or lower is better)
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Yeah, that's pretty funny - with those numbers you could be an NFL linebacker.
 
Couple more things to think about, I can't think of that multi million dollar football players name that went to Afganistan with our Army and got killed. He was in the best shape possible.

If your in a fight that has gotten down to fist,feet and teeth your strength will come in handy. But you might look at all the ways our men get killed in war and ask yourself how many got to use their muscle.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

There is an old saying "train hard , so you will make a good looking corpse":cool:

As I get older the training I do is to shoot the enemy and the better and faster I can do it the less likely he will shoot me. You won't stay in physical shape forever:D

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

25
 
Posted by Dragun:

before i joined the army, i made sure i could do the minimun PT requirements. i think it was 40 sit-ups, 40 push-ups, and run the mile in less than eighteen mimutes. i weighed about 205 at 5'9". even got my long hair cut off before i joined. doing the minimum once a day seemed easy. once i got into basic, after about 2 weeks of double timing and "drop and give me fifty" all day everyday, i was reduced to not even being able to the minimum due to arms, legs and every other muscle being turned to rubber. after about about 5 or 6 weeks of this, i had went from 205 lbs to 165 lbs of lean mean fighting machine. at this point we litteraly did hundreds of push-ups and sit-ups no problem everyday. running a mile in less than 12 minutes. 3 pull-ups? try 25 for a minimun. climbing up 25 or 30 feet of rope using your legs is rough, let alone straight up without your legs. main thing i think we were being taught was agility and stamina. mostley stamina.
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OK. This is before you joined the Army.

Hundreds of pushups each day?
A minimum standard for pullups?
Climbing a rope with your legs?

What MOS are/were you?
Where was Basic and AIT? Did you do them separately, or were you OSUT?

Running a mile in less than 12 minutes? I should hope so.

What was your score on your last APFT? Just curious.
 
hey losangeles, i hope to gosh that 418 lb bench wasn't with a shirt. bragging about lifting with gear (support gear that makes you lift more to everyone else) on a thread about combat fitness would be hilarious. i am sure you are strong in your raw lifts too though if you can shirt bench 400, but you see my point.
 
Yeah, ok, porskin. I like just to chat in these forums b/c it's fun.

Alright, I fess up it was with a shirt. It does make a big difference I admit. But also, the rules are strict in competition (you bring it down to chest and can't lift until the judge gives the signal). A lot different than touch-and-go like everybody does in the gym. That pretty much offsets the poundage on the bench, if not more so.

But, ok, I do touch-and-gos all the time. I cycle 10 - 12 weeks before competition, and go strict with a shirt only the last couple weeks before.

I believe the bench press is a basic thing to do for preparation in any activity -- sports, martial arts, combat. The only resistance in the sports world I found is in boxing, which I used to do from my early teens to mid-20's competitively (not pro). Too many old school trainers and managers who are against it.
 
Oh, Dragun? Still waiting...

When was your last APFT? What was your score?
Where exactly did you have to climb a rope hand over hand without using your legs?

And exactly where are pullups required as a part of the APFT?

I do know of one place where pullups are required--but nowhere near 25.

By the way, one mile in 12 minutes won't even let you graduate Basic Training.

Again, no flame intended. Just curious....

Yours,

Your friendly neighborhood Powderman
(former) SSG, USA
 
Ok. We are talking stats. I got in a weird situation. 19yo, I joined the Navy. The first week or so, the "Seals" came around and asked for volunteers for the Special Warfare program. So, I volunteered and entered the Dive Fair program and was doing well enough. Then they told me I had to relenquish my guaranteed "A" school, as they did not use Cryptologists as Seals. I searched within myself and decided that if I dropped my guaranteed A school and didn't make it through BUDS, I'd be a paint chipper, haze gray and underway with no designation. SO, I refused to drop my guaranteed contract and was forced to leave the dive fair program. Well, things get weird here. At the end of boot camp I was supposed to go to Intelligence School in Pensacola and instead was told that I was going to an Army Post up North. WTF? So, another fellow and I that were heading into Naval Intelligence that were both in the DF program got sent to an Army Intelligence School for almost a year, and spent a few months of that time TAD to a Special Forces training unit. It isn't even in my records and the only proof I have of it is going to the troop medical clinic in my med records. What I'm getting at is that going in I weighed 225lbs and when the SF unit kicked me down to 180lbs, I could shuffle 20 miles with no trouble. Before that I could bench 370, squat 600, and leg press over a ton and I could run several miles. After getting chewed up and spit out, I lost perceived strength, but my whole body was stronger instead and I could go forever. Winding up in the Middle East in an intelligence capacity, I had to do intel work for an actual Deployed Seal team. In reality, they were nothing like Marcinco's books. Most of them were fairly small guys that were built like rawhide. No bulging muscles, just wiry strong little bstds. The largest one weighed maybe 170 and he was an officer. No Arnolds or Rambos. Just strangely silent scary little guys.
 
losangeles, you are a man for admitting the shirt bench thing. you should also be proud of that total at your weight. also, as a powerlifter, don't you think the deadlift is a better indicator of overall body strength as virtually every muscle is challenged? just curious. someone with your total poundages opinion is imporatant to this discussion
 
500 pounds and 50 reps? Why carry AR-15s when you could give an M2 .50 caliber a pistol grip and carry that as your primary, and have a CAR-15 as your pistol. Instead of a flak jacket you could use an outward facing claymore as body armor...

As a self destruct feature to prevent capture by the enemy you could keep a ball of plutonium in your ass and initiate a fission reaction by tightening up...

What a crock, to claim that everyone in his unit or whatever could do that.
 
don't you think the deadlift is a better indicator of overall body strength as virtually every muscle is challenged? just curious.
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OK, I'll give you that. You're right about that actually b/c the deadlift involves more of the major muscle groups.

When I answered the topic, I was looking for easier activities to measure. Activities that most people have done, or could go and measure.

If you max on the deadlift, it's one of the most body-stress things you can inflict on the body (assuming you're maxing). The back feels like it will snap, guts feel like it's going to spill out of the azzhole, the bar feels like it'll rip your thighs. Most people don't deadlift. And if someone new tries to go and max out the first time, even if they're athletes, something bad will happen -- they will likely get injured. For most people, you can't just set this up as test -- unless you have the technique and training, serious injury will happen if you test your limits.

There's some horrific accidents that can happen with a loaded bar when you're in max mode. Even something like the bench press, the bar doesn't have to fall on you. Your pec muscles can just unroll off the tendon -- sproinggg! --- like a rollaway window blind. It's pretty gross, actually.
 
Lets not forget about that distended rectum thingy that can happen...

Apparently you can strain so hard your intestine can pop out or something like that, and you have no anus left. Also theres the famous incident of a female weightlifter straining so hard fecal matter shoots out and imbeds itself into the floor.

Overall not the healthiest sport. Above a certain point do you really need that much strength anyway? Is it worth not being able to wipe your butt cause your arms are to big.

Rhetorical question.
 
I wound up becoming the detachment p.t. instructor for our three companies up at the fort. For combat, escape and evasion training, we totally ignored weight training. Basic pushups, crunches, jumping jacks, ropes, mountain climbers, different leg and torso lifts, and resistance training, pull ups and rotations and stretches, swimming and shuffling our butts into the dirt is all the conditioning you need. To me, weight training slows you down where it matters. I weight trained, and as a 230lb lineman ran the 40 in only 5.3, but after getting out of the weights make you stronger mindset, the above circuit is what we conditioned to fight and run with. For our combat purposes, it was our thought to forget the high weight low reps, and work out with lighter weight, higher reps if you're going to use weights at all.
 
Model 25:

The NFL star turned soldier was Pat Tillman. He played for the AZ cardinals before becoming a Ranger. He was killed in a firefight while on patrol in Afghanistan by "friendly fire".
 
Apparently you can strain so hard your intestine can pop out or something like that, and you have no anus left. Also theres the famous incident of a female weightlifter straining so hard fecal matter shoots out and imbeds itself into the floor.
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Not a pretty sight! Can you imagine the look of the spotter's face -- the spotter who has to stand behind? I'm sure it's not a straight spray directly to the floor. Some of that stuff has to spray straight back, I would think.
 
in addition you also need mental toughness and endurance. So when you push your body to the peak and its telling you you cant go on.....you can get that extra you need.
 
Incidentally, I'm a certified personal trainer, and if anyone needs advice on strength, conditioning, etc., just PM me. I'm not going to go into a definitive post on the subject in this thread, because once I started, I don't think I would be able to stop typing. It's a VERY broad topic. But seriously, feel free. If I can help, I will.
 
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