First Range Day with M1A-I shot HORRIBLE!

Horrible accuracy

JRiggs and GEWERH98, I don't know if you are career servicemen or just in for four. Never the less I applaud your effort to up grade your training. I for one am proud of you for just being in the service. As a former military man and retired pilot I remember that most places I was stationed had a shooting club open to every one. If you aren't already members, you might consider it. When I was stationed on Okinawa a couple of wars back I was a member of the all service pistol team. It was lots of fun and I learned a lot. Good shooting.
Marshall
 
I just had to put my two cents in here too. Im on active duty in the Air Force Security Forces at Nellis AFB,NV. I know its been hashed out already here about the known distance at which we shoot the M16 AFQC, I will say this though, shooting in many different positions under time is even somewhat of a challenge for me. I regularly shoot my personal AR and carry an M16 daily. I shoot expert but Im not saying its easy. We have people in the unit who regularly fail this course because they're typical urban youth with no real experience with firearms. The Air Force knows we wont engage the enemy on a flightline at ranges over 100 meters. Then in an ABD scenario we wont engage over 300 meters anyways, and in most cases our crew served weapons like the M-60, Mk-19, M-2, and above all the M-29A1 mortar will handle most threats to an airbase. Us cops with the M16's realize were just there to hold the bad guys heads down while the real killers, heavy weapons, fix, channelize and destroy whomever wants to attack our airbases. So while those esteemed jarheads espouse their feats of markmanship and say how stupid the Air Force is, just remember we all have different missions. And one last thing, us Air Force guys will let you Marines waste ammo from a rifle thats only marginally effective past 600 meters while we'll shoot a Mk-19 or a .50 cal at the target and wipe it out. 'nuff said.
 
Well-stated, Stam-Knees!

Marshall, I've been active duty for just over 15 years, but I'm aircrew, so I seriously doubt they'll let me compete for the Air Force shooting teams, that's almost always garnered by the SP's and Combat Arms Training folks. But it doesn't stop me from going out and shooting High Power and 1000 yard tactical matches on my own time, which I do religiously. When I retire, that'll leave me even more time to divide my attentions between the firing line and the Dillons on the reloading bench!:D

Yup, I figured the same as Stam-Knees, we don't tell the Marines how to shoot M16's out past 300 meters, and they don't tell us how to do RC-135 Rivet Joint sorties, heehee!;)

JRiggs, go ahead and bench that M1A, and spend a few bucks for 20 rounds of good Federal or Black hills .308 ammo. Then you can actually see what the rifle will do for you.

I had a similar problem with my M14NM and some CAVIM .308, thinking the gun was a loose shooter. I hadn't gotten my .308 dies yet, so it's what I used to benchmark the gun, silly me...

The gunsmith who built the gun for me almost smacked me when he heard what I was using. I learned rather quickly, now it's 10 years later, and my 168gr Sierra MatchKings go comfortably where the M14NM is aimed. Don't give up, your M1A will come through for you!
 
:) ok...I'm much better now. Didn't mean to sound like a do-do head, just that by skivies get in a bunch when the military can only afford to have its shooters qualify at ridiculously short ranges. I think this has even happened to the USMC. I got out in '83.....and last I heard they have changed their qualification course somewhat. I'm not sure what the ranges are, but I sure hope its not like the rest of the military services. I did a couple of years in the PA National Guard recently and witnessed the army shooting at 25 yds. WOW.......that'll tell make you a better shot. This is rifle of course.

Anyway.....I'm better now :)
 
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't a 25yard target the way to get a quick-and-dirty battlefield zero for 200yards?

Not that I agree, but there is some logic to doing this.
 
Actually, your pretty close. With the M-16A2, we are told to bottom out our elevation setting. After we are zeroed at 25 meters, we go up to the 300 meter setting. This is sussposed to give us a battle sight zero from point blank out to 300 meters. Fellow Air Force members, feel free to correct me if Im wrong, but this is what I remember them telling us to do. The 25 meter qualification really isnt as dumb as it sounds, its not as easy as it sounds either, especially under timed conditions.
 
Steve it was still 200, 300 and 500 yards when I shot my last expert in 1990. I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed but maybe an active duty Marine could enlighten us.
 
Give yourself a break. Spend the $$ and get yourself a couple boxes of match grade ammo. I agree with echo3mike the 6 oclock hold is the the best. I think with good ammo you'll see what the M1A and yourself can do.

Guys,

If you think a 25-meter qualification is bad. Listen to how I qualified with a M-16. I was trained with a M-14 in basic and Advance Infantry Training. Ended up at Fort Campbell, KY in 67 assigned to the United States Army Training Center. Since I could type I was told I would become a company clerk. This is not what I wanted and didn’t like it. A couple months later a slot opened up in a sister company for an armorer and I moved. I then went back to school and received a secondary MOS as a company armorer. Three 1049’s later I received orders to Vietnam in my Primary MOS of 11B.

I had leaned to break down and repair a M-16 but had never shot one. Went to class and then to the range. This is the kicker. The E-6 running the qualification said he had hot date and wanted to get this over with. Each man went to the firing line loaded a 20 round mag. Placed the 16 on full auto and held the trigger till empty. I don’t think I hit the target but he did qualify me as a marksman. Before and after retuning form Vietnam I qualified expert with the M-14.

At least at 25 meters you may get to hit something. But regardless OJT in Vietnam worked for me with the 16.

Turk
 
Heck, we qualified with the M1 Carbine in basic.

I was supposed to qualify on the M16 before I went to Nam but it was cancelled. For awhile I had to go off base every day. We were issued 16s from the armory and 60 rounds each. I never knew if it would work which isn`t such a bad thing in retrospect.
 
JRiggs, listen to 4V50Gary. Get on paper at 25 yards, shoot a few 3 shot groups with a good rest and consistant hold, so you're getting consistent groups. With a new gun, go to 50 and repeat. If everything is OK, go to 100 and fine tune your sight setting.

I like to use a six o'clock hold on a 4"-6" round bull or square @ 100 yards. If I'm sighting in for 100 yards, my rounds will impact close to the six o'clock of the bull.

Very few can shoot 1" groups with iron sights, consistantly and on demand, no matter how accurate the rifle, but alot of guys say they can. It take a very good rifle with a well mounted scope to do this consistantly and it's not always easy. Practice at a distance that you can group well, then extend it. Same hold, same rest, same breath, same trigger pull.

A good M1-A ought to be able to hold 2 1/2" (many will do better) so 5" with a shaky rest and various sight pictures doesn't sound too bad, so far. Learn to trust that front sight, and you'll be surprised by what you can do.
 
Marshall,

MOS Airborne qualified had a P in the MOS 11B4P. = 11B = Light Weapons Infantry, 4 was the rank and P = airborne qualified. 11B40, 0 was a striaght leg or a Mech Infantrymen. 11C was Heavy Weapons infantry


Turk
 
M.O.S.

Boy, Turk, I guess I dated myself. I was in the 82nd (went to jump school at Bragg) then was sent to Okinawa with the 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 503rd Ifantry Combat Team. Where upon I spent 27 months hopping around Asia. But, like I said, that was a loooong time ago.
Marshall
 
Marshall,

Were you with the 503rd (in a battle group) before it became the 173rd?. My unit 1/50th Infantry (Mech) was part of the 173rd and we worked with the 1st & 2nd Bats of the 503rd in 68-69. The 1/50th was a bastard Infantry Battalion and was assigned to different parent groups the 4th Inf. , 1st Cav., 173rd and finally to MACV as component of Task Force South.

During my tour the Herd consistied of 5 infantry Battalions, the 1,2,3, & 4 Battalions of the 503rd and the 1/50th plus a couple of smaller componets.

Turk
 
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