First Class vs. Economy Class Handguns

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There are ~75 Self Defense Handgun makers I could find. Task is to divide them into three tiers - kind of like First Class (most desirable), Business Class (very solid), Economy Class (might get us there perfectly in some cases, but if we had more money, we'd rather traveling First or Business)
To avoid connotations of price being the only criteria, I will be calling the Classes A, B and C.

We're looking only at the best gun from each maker - whichever that gun is, in your opinion. I will start listing universally acknowledged flagships behind the maker - please help me along with that, too. Let me know if anything should be shifted around.

This list is only there to help organize things in the head of the total novice. A novice in a country where you are only allowed one handgun. Or two, like in Germany. It can only be compiled by you experts, but it is not intended for you experts.

The best gun from the best maker in Class B has to be worse than the best gun from the worst maker in Class A.

The best gun from the best maker in Class C has to be worse than the best gun from the worst maker in Class C.

DISCLAIMER: In some cases, the C Class guns will be perfectly fine and reliable. But it would be very unlikely, that if guns were all free, or if - like in some countries - people can only have one handgun, they would choose one from that group.

Of course, nothing beats holding the gun in your hands, shooting it and knowing which one -to use a Harry Potter analogy- is your wand!

Class A Handgun Makers in no particular order (we would choose these makers over Class B and C even if all guns from all three classes cost exactly the same)

Manurhin (France) r (flagship: MR-73)
Glock (flagship: Glock 17 Gen4)
Kahr (flagship: K9)
Sig Sauer (flagship: p210 p226/8 or 220)
CZ (flagship: CZ 75)
Smith & Wesson r (flagship: Model 27 or 686? )
Walther (flagship: P99 or PPK)
Ruger r (flagship: Redhawk or GP-100)
Beretta (flagship: 92FS)
IWI (Israel) (flagship: Desert Eagle)
Colt r (flagship: M1911 Special Combat Government)
Springfield Armory (flagship: 1911 Loaded or TRP)
Browning (flagship: Hi Power)
Heckler und Koch (flagship: P7)
FN
Remington
Magnum Research r
Cabot Guns
Korth (Germany) r
Seecamp r
NAA r
Freedom Arms r
Caracal (UAE)
Steyr (Austria) (flagship: M9)
Sphinx (Switzerland)
Dan Wesson r
Coonan
Daewoo (South Korea)
Detonics
Infinity
Lionheart
Boberg Arms
Uberti r
F.lli Pietta r
Les Baer
Wilson Combat
Ed Brown
Guncrafter Industries
Nighthawk Custom
STI r
Bond Arms
Tanfoglio (Italy)

Class B Handgun Makers in no particular order (if we could only have one gun, we would only buy these guns if none of the comparable Class A guns were available) :

Kimber
Taurus (Brazil) r (flagship: PT92)
Rossi (Brazil) r
Arcus (Bulgaria) r
Charter Arms r
Auto Ordnance
FMK
Hi-Point
Kel-Tec
Armscor/Rock Island Armory r
Canik (Turkey)
Diamondback
Stoeger
Girsan Yavuz (Turkey)
Bersa (Argentina) r
Arsenal Firearms
Heritage r

Am assuming the below are Class B, but I just don't know enough about them. Any Class A or Class Cs among the following? Otherwise, I'll just leave them in Class B:

BUL (Israel)
Zastava (Serbia) r
S.A.M. (Philippines) r
KORA Brno (Czech) r
Alfa Proj (Czech) r
American Classic (Philippines)
MAC (Philippines)
Grand Power (Slovakia)
Norinco (China) r
Weihrauch/Arminius (Germany) r
Valtro

Class C Handgun Makers in no particular order (we would only buy these if we couldn't get our hands on anything comparable from A or B. If there is something in B that you consider worse than something in C, let's move the guy from B down, rather than moving the guy from C up. C is underpopulated at the moment)

Chiappa (Italy) r
Cobra r
Accu-Tek
Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez
Comanche (Argentina) r
Phoenix Arms
S.P.S. (Spain)
High Standard (Texas, not Connecticut)
SCCY

("r" after the make denotes they currently make revolvers also)

Please also tell me if I am missing any contemporary (not interested in defunct) handgun gun makers from anywhere in the world.

I will keep editing the list using your feedback.

Thnx.
 
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This is entirely too complicated and disjointed with the automotive analogies. My Glock doesn't have air conditioned seats and heated steering wheel. Neither does a wilson combat super grade.

Why is charter arms in the special snowflake 1911 class?

You want to know what first class guns are, look at the holsters of first class law enforcement agencies and militaries. There is some overlap and exceptions, but as we are speaking of manufacturers, and not specific models, we are speaking in terms of generalities by default.


Some townie cops endorsement of his HK over LAPD's Glocks means nothing. HK is a few bills more, big deal. Just another mass produced plastic gun. I carry a Glock unapologetically and don't have anything to prove. Cost has nothing to do with my decision. If wilson or any other "mercedes grade" gun was a better gun for concealed carry and fighting than my Glocks, I'd already have 4 of them.


Why are we projecting our social / economic status aspirations onto our handgun choices? Buy guns that meet your needs, and concentrate on the human software of training and practicing. That's where you'll really show polige company where you really stand amongst gun owners. Trust me, I'm ridiculously vain and materialistic, but after owning a bunch of "nicer" guns, it's the method and competency that I aspire to. "Nice" guns will get in your way if you are trying to become competent fighting with them.
 
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Goodness, you are right. Charter Arms slipped into the wrong category. It's definitely more Economy in this analogy. Thanks.

Shortened the part about the cars.
 
I would take:
Hi Standard
Detonics
Chippia
Uberti
out of the economy class and bump them into the desired class

A good Hi Standard .22 is in good demand and desired for excellent target shooting. Above Ruger and Browing.

Chappia is not cheap and they might have the greatest invention in their Chappia Rhino to come along in a long time.

Detonics fetch a pretty good price and made some really nice guns

Uberti is waaaay above companies like heritage arms.
 
IWI makes the desert eagle. That's pretty high end. If it was a car, it would be a 6 year old BMW 7-Series on 26" gaudy cheap Chinese wheels parked in Section 8 housing, but it's still a higher end and aspirational gun.

Lionheart is a nice gun and based on the highly competent Daewoo DP51 that supplies the very professional South Korean military. The gun features premium features and has high praise in reviews for its performance and the company's customer service. It's a niche player, but they still import and sell more guns than most well known custom 1911 houses.


Boberg is a premium little snowflake.


Springfield 1911's are nice, but the XD is Taurus grade. This is another problem I have with your concept. Not all manufacturers can be judged on a single product or product line. Walther is another company that just decided to simultaneously go after plastic pistol buyers in the $300 and $800 segments (but with nothing really in between).
 
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Problem is some of these "economy class" guns are actually really reliable and accurate as well as being affordable, and some of the expensive "first class" guns that are high end pre-madonnas constantly requiring tweaking and maintenance to ensure functionality. I know a guy who has a Ferrari but it's constantly in the shop. I know another with a 1990 Honda Accord that has never needed a repair. It can be the same with guns. I have a Canik t120 that I shoot idpa with that shoots like a dream. I've seen several expensive 1911s break down in idpa competitions. On the other hand, most of your "first class" guns are a good buy and worth the money.
 
One other thing. I would not put Tanfoglio in the economy class. Their guns ca easily compare to an STI any day of the week.
 
Lower said:
Dear FFLs (Friends at Firing Line)

I would like to try and use the collective wisdom of this forum to complete a list I have been working on with my friends at the S&W forum.

While reading as much as I could read about handgunds over the past month, I discovered there seems to be something like a consensus that certain gun makers are really First Class for SD guns (I am not concerned with target shooting or hunting here) in that - on their best models - they focus more on quality than on price - as far as that is possible with an assembly line gun that of course has to stay affordable to military and law enforcement.

Of course, each of these makers also have their low-budget guns that might not be so excellent. But I'm really only looking at their best models here. Ones that you wouldn't be surprised to see a billionaire carry, or a former serviceman who had inherited a fortune - or anyone for whom money was not an issue. These are the guns of legend, and even if they have detractors, common wisdom would seem to say: if your life depends on it, go with those.

I am not concerned with size (full size/compact/subcompact etc) which is why companies like NAA are included); safety/no safety/decocker; revolver vs semi-automatic; blowback vs lock breach; striker-fire vs hammer-fire. Those are separate discussions and arguments. I am looking only at the quality of their respective best hand guns (am also ignoring the quality of rifles or machine guns a company makes).

It is my aim to have this list include ALL factory made handguns. And the best of the boutique ones.
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Lower, this post is an ambitious undertaking that is completely off the deep end, and in all honesty a waste of time. By your own words, you are reducing a company's reputation to it's best mass produce firearm, but that's often a matter for debate. In addition, the limiter of "self defense" is so broad (encompassing concealed carry, home defense, car carry, etc.) that it loses meaning. Finally, your entire question hinges on using a specific sample (a single gun from a manufacturer) to put it in a generalized class. The logical falacy should be obvious from there. You should either judge the firearm itself (i.e. compare the Sig 226 to the Beretta 92) or judge the company by the sum of it's offerings (all Sig pistols to all Beretta pistols). Anything else is trying to force too many vague variables into a single question.
 
Springfield 1911's are nice, but the XD is Taurus grade.
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WOW! I think we have a reasonable objection here! You just called a MIM filled 1911 with an OK reputation, premium, but possibly the best striker fired pistol made you called economy and compared to Taurus....do you have any basis for this are we just slinging mud at this point in the conversation?
 
It's all opinion. OP considers a Mercedes to be quality, they can't get into the top 10 in most surveys. You consider an XD to be a quality striker fired pistol, many people still see them as HS-2000's, which you couldn't give away about 15 years ago. Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi.

The HS2000 was adopted by the Croatian military and law enforcement as a standard issue sidearm and continues to fill that role today. The pistol was initially exported to the US market by Intrac and distributed by HSAmerica who sold the pistol in 9 mm as the HS2000.

In 2002, Springfield Armory, Inc negotiated licensing rights to the US market, and changed the name to the XD-9 (X-treme Duty 9×19mm Parabellum).
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The modern Springfield Armory XD pistol and it's derivatives, are all spin offs of the HS-2000 which was originally designed by Marko Vukovic and produced by I.M. Metals. The gun originally sold for $250.00 most everywhere, and no one wanted it. The gun was what it was, a cheaply made, imported semi auto that used a lot of MIM parts in it's manufacture, which was one of the main reasons they were able to keep it's cost down.

Then Springfield Armory came along and got involved, purchased the rights to manufacture it, jacked up the price $200.00+ dollars to help pay for the multi million dollar advertising blitz that ensued, tossed in $5 worth of cheap, molded plastic "Gear", and the Springfield XD was born. Sales took off, and the rest is history. It soon became the greatest thing to come down the pike since Monday Night Football. Springfield wanted a piece of the market Glock pretty much had the franchise on, and they didn't feel like trying to design a gun from scratch to do it. So they bought the rights to the HS-2000. Not a bad idea from a marketing standpoint if you think about it.
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I don't think I'd put Korth and Caracal in the same class with Korth 357's starting at 6K and Korth semi-auto at about 10K!:eek:

And, I think it's a little outdated to put Tanfoglio in the economy class with their upper lines selling between $1,100 and $2,000. I don't think you can put most gun makers each just into one of three categories. It simply doesn't work. It would be difficult to separate out even the truly "elite" gun manufacturers from all the rest - although I think most will agree that Korth belongs in any elite grouping.

Anyway the answer to the question of which to buy economy class vs. first class then I'd go with first class. Especially if I am only going to have one handgun, I'd spare little expense. However, if you are going to have a number of handguns, then I'd have at least one or two economy handguns that are reliable but which you won't really care if they get scratched, finish wear, dinged, etc.

As I've gotten older, I find myself far more interested in higher end guns than economy guns.
 
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Rohrbaugh

Rohrbaugh is bankrupt, aren't they? I couldn't find their website anymore. It seems like they're gone -at least for the moment. Or am I mistaken? If they're still around, where do they belong? Also - does Bond Arms belong in Economy or First Class - I wasn't sure about that. How good is their product? Also BUL (Israel). Are they Economy or First Class? And was I right in bumping Daewoo to First Class in response to a poster? I know next to nothing about them. Thanks.
 
Please tell me if I'm being unfair to anyone here. And here comes a sentence that sounds like a logic puzzle: Is there a gunmaker presently listed in Economy Class that makes better a better gun than the best gun that the worst gun maker presently listed in First Class makes? If yes, please tell me, and I'll switch them out.
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It isn't that simple. Some of the companies in your "economy" list make very good, reliable, trutworthy firearms. I own a couple of Para-Ordnance pistols and I would trust my life to them. In fact, I do -- a Para Slim Hawg is in my carry rotation. Charter Arms, Auto-Ordnance, Rock Island, and some of the others also make good, solid firearms. They can't be in the same class as the pot metal Saturday night specials like Jiminez.

You need a third category, for "Junk."

And, having tested some of Chiappa's recent handgun offerings, how in the world could you possibly include Chiappa in the "First Class" category? They belong down there with Jiminez, in the "Junk" category.

You forgot Shooters Arms Manufacturing (S.A.M.). And Para-Ordnance ==< ParaUSA no longer exists as a brand -- ParaUSA was bought by Remington, and Remington recently absorbed the Para brand into Remington.
 
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Thank you, Aquila Blanca for this useful feedback. Have included S.A.M. (under Economy, right?), have deleted Para-Ordnance, have moved Chiappa back to Economy and totally understand your points about the other guns.

If I were to include a junk section, would we have enough candidates? Which of the companies are really junk makers? In that even their best guns are not ones you would want to trust your life with?
 
There really is no way to get a definitive list, here. Too much of this is based on subjective criteria. In fact, if you can get even 75% of posters on this thread to agree on a final categorized list, I will send you a free 2 lb package of pulled pork from my BBQ truck with your choice of sauce. It's just not gonna happen my friend.
 
Is there any reason for this? It seems totally off the wall and completely unnecessary. If you want a specific gun for a specific purpose you simply look at guns that fits your requirements. You check out guns that fit those parameters and see if spending more is worth it to you. Trying to create some master list of quality levels is just....well, silly.
 
There needs to be a heck of a lot more than two categories.

Seriously, Korth and Ruger in the same slot? Something isn't quite right about that. :confused:
 
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