First case involving Halyna Hutchins's death goes to trial .

Negligence is about failing to take ordinary care.
Here's a pretty good hypothetical example (I think, I made it up).

Somebody asks for permission to hunt on farmer B's property. Farmer B says yeah, go ahead, but yer on your own and responsible for yourself. No problem says the hunter. While stalking a 495 lb buck with a gargantuan rack--the hunter slips and falls into an old well covered by leaves and is killed by the fall.

The family of the hunter successfully sues Farmer B for millions and then some; he loses everything--because he knew about the existence of a well some place on his property but did not take preventive measures to make sure nobody could possibly get hurt. You also cannot legally waiver away negligence.
 
Because there was a fatal shooting accident, its tragically obvious the armorer failed to do their job correctly.

What this trial should be about is, first, establishing if that failure was due to the armorer's actions/lack of actions, or if it was the result of events beyond the armorer's control.

Then, establishing what legal responsibilities the armorer should be held accountable for. And what other people involved should be held accountable for.

After the shooting a great many things were reported to the press and to investigators. Some of them I believe were true. Some I'm sure were what the people saying them thought were true, and some I have my doubts about.

Several of them are key points that should be covered in court, under oath. We're on the way there, hopefully all the relevant and important questions will be answered, but its likely not all will be.
 
What this trial should be about is, first, establishing if that failure was due to the armorer's actions/lack of actions, or if it was the result of events beyond the armorer's control.
What matters is whether or not what she did (or didn't do) constitutes lack of due care or negligence.

There's also the evidence tampering charge but that's another issue entirely.
Here's a pretty good hypothetical example (I think, I made it up).

Somebody asks for permission to hunt on farmer B's property. Farmer B says yeah, go ahead, but yer on your own and responsible for yourself. No problem says the hunter. While stalking a 495 lb buck with a gargantuan rack--the hunter slips and falls into an old well covered by leaves and is killed by the fall.

The family of the hunter successfully sues Farmer B for millions and then some; he loses everything--because he knew about the existence of a well some place on his property but did not take preventive measures to make sure nobody could possibly get hurt. You also cannot legally waiver away negligence.
The example is more about civil liability, the current trial is about criminal conduct.

If you change the last paragraph to: "Farmer B is arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter for not telling the hunter about a concealed well and/or for not marking/eliminating a potentially deadly hazard." then that would be a good example of a person who isn't present at the time of the death but contributed to it by failing to exercise ordinary care/by being negligent.
 
The example is more about civil liability, the current trial is about criminal conduct.
True--my apologies; my point was that having known about a previous potential problem and not having done anything about it--even if circumstances around the accident was not directly the fault of the person--does not absolve them from liability. This is where I see the greatest vulnerability to Baldwin, even if he makes it through the criminal trial unscathed he'll likely get leveled a massive civil lawsuit I suspect--but pure armchair speculation on my part. Unless he's already unloaded a bunch of cash to the family--might have for all I know.
If you change the last paragraph to: "Farmer B is arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter for not telling the hunter about a concealed well and/or for not marking/eliminating a potentially deadly hazard." then that would be a good example of a person who isn't present at the time of the death but contributed to it by failing to exercise ordinary care/by being negligent.
Agreed; though under the circumstances that the Farmer let the hunter on his property "at his own risk" I seriously doubt would give rise in a criminal charge. Increasingly, some states (like mine, Maine) are starting to grant zero negligence/liability in tacit "at your own risk" permission when granting the use of private property for recreational purposes.
 
Last edited:
JohnKSa said:
In this case, if the armorer wasn't on scene and left someone else in charge without being sure that person had adequate experience and training to do the job, then it's possible that could be seen as failing to exercise ordinary care and she could be found criminally responsible for actions taken while she was not on the set because her negligence led to those actions.
Even if the person she left in charge was her boss, who was a direct employee of the company that supplied most of the firearms and ammunition? And the directive to NOT be present originated from her boss's boss?

I think that might be enough to create reasonable doubt for a jury.
 
Even if the person she left in charge was her boss, who was a direct employee of the company that supplied most of the firearms and ammunition? And the directive to NOT be present originated from her boss's boss?
1. If the person she left in charge was competent to do her job then it wouldn't be negligence. One would think that person would then be the one being prosecuted and not her.
2. Is a person breaking the law if their management told them to do it? If l were in that position, I would want, at the least, for there to be some official record of my objection to the order.
There was a shooter on the set of Rust.
There was an actor who was handed a loaded gun and told it was empty--i.e. not loaded, not even with live blanks. There's a trial going on to determine the guilt of one person involved in that debacle and there will likely be at least one more after that.
Here is Branca arguing Hanna is not guilty.
More and more, I'm getting the feeling that Branca says what he thinks will get him the most views on his videos.
 
Ive observed Branca makes the argument/s based on specific law , not always agreeing with the argument. Often do to questions he gets . That was a “short” clip of a much longer conversation . I believe the general topic was intervening circumstances . During that conversation he just threw out that argument/theory . As an attorney isn’t that pretty much your job , figure out any argument that will get an acquittal or a hung jury . Just look at some of the recent Supreme Court cases or other high profile cases in the news lately . it’s pretty clear they attorneys on either side will say anything to win, regardless of how ridiculous . Hell here in California, we had the state, claiming the prohibition of blacks owning firearms was a good enough historical tradition to show the banning of firearms is constitutional . Showing some will say anything to win - mike-drop haha

It’s not wrong on it’s face as far as - had Baldwin practiced all SAG and general safety rules there would likely not been any injuries let alone a death .

That said Hanna said in the police interview or on the phone with someone ( I know I heard here say it somewhere) she loaded the gun and handed it to the AD or who ever ( forget ) and claimed it cold or what ever wording they use on set . I still think once thats done by the armorer , nobody should be opening the gun and pulling out bullets to see if the gun has live rounds in it . Its been said several times you can’t tell if there is a live round or a dummy in the cylinder when that type of firearm is loaded .

This brings up the question , what is an actor to do in that circumstance? Completely unload the gun to check ?? No cus we also heard testimony some if not many armorers place the cold or hot gun directly into the holster or wherever its to be for the start of the scene . If thats even somewhat true how is an actor ever supposed to check and see if the gun is loaded ?

Ok now we talk “loaded” . The gun WAS loaded and everyone knew that so again what was the actor supposed to check specifically? Was he supposed to unloaded every round and shake them or check for primers or holes ?

IDK but I have a suspicion either Alec Baldwin a professional armor or both is going to get up on the stand in Baldwin trial and say the actor never unloads the gun and checks the ammunition before a scene , that’s why you have a professional armorer on set .

Anyways, that’s my thoughts on this specific topic
 
Last edited:
More and more, I'm getting the feeling that Branca says what he thinks will get him the most views on his videos.
No way! I mean, there's no way his product endorsements and pay-per-comments would have anything to do with that.;)
 
IMO, "The Code" among those who use firearms,is this:

If I am handing you a firearm,immediately before I hand it to you(not 5 minutes ago) I check its load status. Its part of the transfer.

As you receive the firearm,you check it again. Yes. Redundancy.

The idea the firearm could be prepped before lunch ,locked in a safe or not,
after lunch whatever check was done is expired.

To be passed through two or three more people is ridiculous. Thats the sort of thing that gets people killed.

The function of the trial is to find out what happened and who is responsible for what.

I confess to being somewhat sympathetic to Hannah,Daughter of Thell.

But that only goes so far. I can't call her innocent. Factors like alleged drug use do not help.

However, I watched the episode of the prop supplier about his problem scrounging dummy rounds ,gun from 1883 in the prop truck, steel wool polishing gungy ammo,sending a cardboard box of reclaimed dummies with the other prop manager....(See youtube vid titled :‘Rust’ Prop Manufacturer Says He Didn’t Supply Real Bullet Alec Baldwin Used in Movie Shooting) Its revealing.


Hanna could have been an apprentice. A good mentor and some experience and confidence to be able to say "No" were lacking.
It was not a situation for John Wayne to throw her in the creek and say "Sink or swim"

An Armorer's competency must be a proven commodity.

In the chain of events, Hannah, Thell, and a number of folks along the way should have said "Hannah, you are not ready."

It seems to me Baldwin may have wanted someone he could bully into being an "armorer" who would not say "No".
I wonder if Baldwin shrugged off the responsibility of safe operation knowing he had a scapegoat armorer as a degree of separation if he shot someone.

Given the task they were working on in the church that day, no actual filming product was being made. There was no need for any blank or dummy rounds for any purpose. Period.

In another scene,when Baldwin comes through the door blazing away, then he is down,he comes up shouting orders using the sixgun for a pointer. Totally inexcusable.

In another scene, a minor character in a long brown overcoat was waving a double barrel shotgun around pointing it at several people.
No one said "Hey!! Watch the muzzles!" Better would be "I'll take the shotgun"

Then its TIME FOR (Yes ,TAKE TIME!) to have a meeting. Clearly state "ANY cast or crew can holler "Cut! Stop what you are doing,hold what you got"
upon seeing an unsafe condition.

And SAG ought to back them up.

But,they did not do that so Halyna is dead.

The "Rust" project hired an Armorer who was not ready. She failed.

The prop house was sloppy with ammo and guns. They failed.

Baldwin was a narcissist freak little boy with a gun. He failed.

Every Grip and Gaffer, etc who now express their concerns failed because they did not say "BS,this is wrong! at a time when it could have saved a life.

It might be the only folks who got it right were those who walked off the job.

And they should have been on the phone reporting things.

Even Halyna may have failed when she did not tell Baldwin "Don't point that gun at me" It may have happened too fast, but NO ONE should tolerate sloppy gun handling.

That includes a group pheasant hunt lunch break with old hump back Browning semi autos being waved around,
 
Last edited:
HiBC, you nailed it. Where as nobody expects "actors" to be firearm experts, they should not be expected to be totally clueless either. Baldwin may not have known anything about firearms, but I find it too hard to believe he did not know basic firearm safety. There were plenty around him that knew better than to aim directly at someone and pull the trigger. Had he not been such a narcissist freak, people would have spoken up. IMHO, the biggest error I have seen so far is Baldwin operated on a my way or the highway. His orders superseded safety.
 
it’s pretty clear they attorneys on either side will say anything to win, regardless of how ridiculous

Do remember that, in court, neither the defense nor the prosecution lawyers are under oath to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

Neither, is the judge, for that matter. :rolleyes:

we also heard testimony some if not many armorers place the cold or hot gun directly into the holster or wherever its to be for the start of the scene . If thats even somewhat true how is an actor ever supposed to check and see if the gun is loaded ?

IDK but I have a suspicion either Alec Baldwin a professional armor or both is going to get up on the stand in Baldwin trial and say the actor never unloads the gun and checks the ammunition before a scene

My understanding of the applicable SAG rules is that the guns are not supposed to be loaded with anything when brought to the set. The ARMORER then loads the gun IN FRONT OF THE ACTOR, director and everyone else, shaking each dummy in front of the actor to hear the rattle of the BBs inside proving it is not a live round, then places the "loaded" gun into the actor's holster or hands. No one else touches the gun.

Testimony that the actor never unloads the gun to check the ammunition before a scene would be accurate and truthful, because, IF the rules were followed, the actor doesn't need to do that, he SAW and HEARD that they were dummies, when the gun was loaded in front of him, and no one else has touched it, and the gun has not been out of his sight, or physical control.

As I understand it, under the movie rules, IF the "loaded" gun does get out of the actor's sight, and physical control, the armorer is supposed to unload the gun, then repeat the loading process completely, again, so everyone can see that dummies or blanks are used.

Also, as I understand it, the rules require that the armorer bring the guns to the set, and be present as long as the guns are there. And that guns should not be on the set when they are not required for filming. As I understand it, when the guns are not required to be on the set for filming, they are supposed to be secured under lock and key and the armorer is supposed to be the only one with the key.

Having worked in industry where this rule applied to certain things, I can tell you that there is almost never "just" one key. There is nearly always a second key, and it is kept by management, secured so that no one else has access to it without direct approval by the manager in charge of the keybox. It is there for emergency response use only if the authorized key custodian cannot be reached, and not for the use as a convenience to the production schedule. And, of course, there is always the "master key" (boltcutters) if needed, but use of the master key leaves evidence it was used (cut lock) while someone using the "spare" key (with or without management permission) does not.

SO, consider this "hypothetical" situation...
The crew is going to /or on the set to rehearse, check camera angles, lighting, etc. Guns are not needed for this, so the armorer is sent to a different location, to conduct other property management duties.

Then someone with the "boss" authority decided they do want the guns on the set, to enhance the realism of the rehearsal. They don't recall the armorer from where they were sent, the send someone else (with the spare key) to get the guns, and ammo, and bring them to the set.

Then on the set, someone who is not the armorer (because they are not there) loads the guns and hands them to the actors. The actor(s) "know" the guns are not loaded with live ammo, because they have been told so, and since they "know" the guns are "harmless" they screw around with them, practicing drawing operating the mechanisms, without regard for who or what the guns are pointed at. That day, on that set, during rehearsal, that resulted in a woman being killed and a man injured.

How many industry rules with broken or completely ignored? Nearly every one. How much of that is actually the armorer's fault??

we don't know if the hypothetical I just proposed was what actually went on at the RUST site or not, but it seems plausible to me. Hopefully we will eventually have sworn testimony covering what happened.
 
It didn't help that the defense and its witnesses were basically a dog and pony show and that the prosecutor was actually pretty good. Baldwin's trial is going to be the really interesting part since large amounts of money has a funny way of tilting the quality of defense in our system of justice. I suspect they'll go after Baldwin for ignoring warning signs and deliberately putting people in charge of things they were not qualified for and that he knew it or should have known it-- rather than get bogged down on "did he pull the trigger or didn't he" or "did he aim it at her or didn't he" (though I'm sure that will be brought up).
 
Last edited:
Verdict:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SmVuCHvhOg

I'm nearly to the end of the defense closing argument (in a different video). I think her attorney did a decent job of pointing out numerous flaws in the government's case, so I have to say that I think the jury messed up. But -- that's the system. Gutierrez might have been better off waiving the jury and opting for a bench trial, but that's always a crap shoot.
 
Back
Top