First carry gun.

D

DeusComedis

Inactive
So, I just sent in the application for my Concealed Firearms Permit, and I will be getting the card soon. I am trying to figure out what kind of gun to carry (most likely AIWB). This is not about what specific gun to buy, per se, because I have spent a good number of weekends on rentals, and I know pretty much what I shoot well. It about trigger type and safety.

I realize I'm brand new to this, but no matter the training, I don't really see myself ever becoming full relaxed with the idea of carrying a cocked gun with a chambered round (the only way, right) in a compressed space pointed right at my femoral artery. I am a little concerned about accidentally popping myself - not so much because I will forget my finger is on the trigger in holstering/unholstering (though that is possible), but more so that the gun will be in an area the gets a lot of movement, I reach into my pockets often, and life has a habit of occasionally causing you to brush up against things, bump into people, or fall. Obviously the options are DA/SA decocked, Striker, SA cocked and locked.

- DA/SA this seems to have the best balance between simplicity (Striker) and safety (Cocked and Locked). But the different trigger pulls might be an issue. I can't tell for certain if I would be less accurate with the first shot under stress, but I at least know that I am conscious of any adjustment between the first and second shots at the range. I'd probably prefer not to go this route.
- SAO vs Striker. This is really the main thing for me, and I guess I've been fed a lot of anecdotes that I need to verify.
- Safeties are bad?: When I first thought about concealed carry I assumed you NEEDED to have a safety switch if you were going to jam a gun in your pants, it seemed, well, safe to me. Apparently, a lot of people say this is a bad idea, because you will forget to disengage it under stress, and lose seconds of self defense. Can anyone with experience attest to this?
- Striker is safer than concocked and locked?: This doesn't really make to me. When hot, both Striker and SAO guns just require an SA pull to go off. But a striker has no safety, and only require something to engage the trigger (the "trigger safety" seems like a gimmick - if something is going to activate the trigger, how would it NOT trip the safety?). SAO guns have a positive safety that completely disable the trigger/sear - this could be accidentally flipped off, but even if that part fails, aren't you just in the same place as a striker now?
- Do hammers often get caught up in things on the draw? (Is it worse with cocked ones?)
- I assume all modern drop safeties/pin blocks are effectively same?
I am hoping to get some advice from experienced individuals who maybe have carried a specific type for many years, and if they (hopefully not) ever had an AD, or those who (unfortunately) had to employ their guns to violent effect, and if they had any issues (specifically with the DA/SA change or the safety)
 
Others will chime in and address your concerns much more thoroughly than I will but in a nutshell:
-If carrying a SA only (1911 style firing system), it is round chambered, hammer cocked, safety engaged.
-Everything else, round chambered, no safety/not engaged if it has a safety, a proper holster prevents any unintentional discharges while carrying.
-Yes, if you are going to carry, a round needs to be chambered. You are not going to have the state of mind to draw, then chamber a round in the seconds you have to address the threat when tunnel vision and auditory exclusion hits due to flight or fight kicking in.
-Maybe consider a revolver like a J-frame if you can't get past a chambered round in a semi auto.
-In reference to your question about experience in disengaging the safety under stress, I am not going to air my personal experiences but if you decide a safety is in order you need to practice disengaging that safety so it becomes muscle memory. For me? Not a chance and why I do not carry SA only firearms for CC that need to/or should have the safety engaged. Speed is paramount in a self defense situation and I do not want anything affecting that.
-Striker vs. SA? A striker fired pistol is not SA and takes a longer trigger pull to fire a round. Google striker fire and you'll see how it works.
-I know you said you have rented numerous guns but have you taken any classes?
 
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Given your newness to carry - I would respectfully recommend you reconsider starting out with appendix carry.

You've outlined some of the risk factors and you've mentioned the femoral artery. The risk is death in under a minute, or a life altering and permanently disfiguring injury.

If you balance this risk against the very low likelihood of needing to deploy at all, you'll likely want to train and gain experience with other methods first. At least, in my non-professional, ordinary guy, opinion.
 
Some of your concern might be addressed by the XD line of pistols, which have the additional grip safety.

Personally, I'm not a fan of appendix carry but not necessarily because of any added safety concerns. I really thought I would like it but it turned out that it just wasn't as comfortable for me as IWB hip carry.
 
A couple of your concerns could be possibly alleviated by using a single clip kydex (hard shell) style holster, which are also the most common for AIWB.

The hard kydex will negate any chance you have of accidentally shooting yourself while the gun is in the holster, the trigger will be fully protected even when you bump, brush, adjust, etc.

Secondly, with the easy on/off single clip style (or multiple, just not as easy) you can just never holster the gun while on your belt. Holster up, clip on, go about your day, remove holster, place on night stand (this is my daily process). The fewer times the gun goes in/out of the holster, the fewer chances you have for an AD.

Assuming you keep the gun in a proper holster most of the time and practice appropriate gun safety when it is out of the holster (range, cleaning, etc) the choice of trigger is really just about how you shoot. SAO, DA/SA, Striker are all great options if you practice enough to become proficient. SAO being the most important to build up muscle memory vis a vi the safety.

Also, to start, you can go ahead and carry for a while with no round chambered but the gun ready to go (striker engaged, cocked and locked, decocked, etc) and you'll quickly notice that the trigger won't be pulled during everyday practice. Seeing this effect for a week or two will likely help get you comfortable with a round chambered.

Again, just remember that most AD/ND's happen when people are messing with the gun, be it holster/unholstering, cleaning, fiddling with it for whatever reason. Keep it in the holster, keep it loaded, keep safe.

Just my $.02, YMMV
 
AIWB Carry - This looks fast in videos and seems like a best method, but you have to consider body shape and relative safety. Not many people have a big enough chest and small enough waist to really carry this way. If you do, consider yourself blessed. Also, seated usually leaves your gun pointed at your leg arteries where you can bleed out super quick with a ND. Just think about it. For me 3-5 IWB carries best as most shirts get wider at the bottom and are pulled wide by fit to the shoulder.

DA/SA - you can learn to shoot fast and accurate doubles, but it is hard. A CZ75 with a lightened DA pull is not bad because the DA is from 1/2 cock and the SA cams the hammer back a bit.

SAO with a safety - This works best for me. Fast, accurate and safe. I carry a 1911.

Striker - some risk, but i feel safe with good holsters and Kahr triggers. ....not so much with Glocks.
 
I carry a Ruger SR9c AIWB. It has a thumb safety, which I use. I am comfortable with the safety and have practiced drawing and firing thousands of times. Like a 1911 or other SA pistol it requires disengaging the safety prior to firing. There are many who are not comfortable with that, who will tell you an external safety will get you killed. My position is lack of training will get you killed, regardless of the manual of arms.

I also carry an LCP, AIWB or in a pocket. It has a long, DAO trigger and I am comfortable with it as well.

As already mentioned, AIWB is not an entry level position. There are some courses and trainers that will not allow carrying this way during their sessions for that reason. It is easily the fastest and most comfortable position for me.

Whatever you decide, good luck.
 
I've carried AWIB for about six years now. I've carried both striker and DA/SA guns that way. I prefer a hammer fired gun for AWIB, because you can ride your thumb on the hammer while re-holstering, which is the most dicey procedure when carrying that way. You can also ride the hammer the same way on your initial draw out of the holster. A hammer fired gun is about as safe a way to carry AWIB as there is. The gun WILL NOT fire with your thumb on that hammer no matter what gets in the trigger guard. However, I also like a consistent trigger pull, so I have carried striker fired guns AWIB for years with no issue. My current main carry gun is a striker fired Walther PPS M2, my secondary is a CZ 75 Compact DA/SA.

If I was you, I would start out with a hammer fired DA/SA or DAO gun for appendix carry. Something like a HK P2000SK or P30SK might be ideal, and I believe both of those models can be found with either the DA/SA or LEM trigger.

I also carried a Gock 26 for over three years AWIB, and for peace of mind I installed the 8lb NY1 trigger spring.

A purpose made kydex AWIB holster is a must, preferably with clips. This will probably have to be custom made, but it is definitely worth it.
 
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I am a little concerned about accidentally popping myself - not so much because I will forget my finger is on the trigger in holstering/unholstering (though that is possible), but more so that the gun will be in an area the gets a lot of movement, I reach into my pockets often, and life has a habit of occasionally causing you to brush up against things, bump into people, or fall.
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Its great to see that your taking the time to become familiar with the different varieties of pistols on the market, and think through which would suit you best.

The first thing to understand is that regardless of action type ( DAO, SAO, DA/SA) modern pistols will NOT fire unless the trigger is pulled. Assuming that you select a proper holster, the trigger is completely covered and cannot be accidentally pulled while in the holster.

While some may argue that one action type is inherently 'safer' than another, I really don't believe this to be true. I have seen negligent discharges with practically every kind of firearm. There is simply no replacement for proper, safe firearm handling.

That said, it is extremely important to be comfortable with the firearm that you carry. If you cannot have peace of mind about carrying with a round chambered, you might consider a revolver.
 
I'll add to the previous advice with a comment concerning this issue.
but more so that the gun will be in an area the gets a lot of movement, I reach into my pockets often,
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nothing but the holstered gun goes in the pocket you carry in. No keys, no knife, no change, and no hand unless you are placing, removing, or God forbid drawing said gun.
Although I do at times carry a larger gun IWB, I always carry a Ruger LCP securly in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster in my right front pocket with full confidence that is is completely safe due to both the design of the gin, and holster.
 
Fyi. Most striker fired guns are not ever in SA. They usually have a preset partially cocked striker. Meaning the trigger pull needs to finish cocking it before it releases it. They tend to have a heavier trigger weight than a SA 1911 by at least a few lbs.

AIWB: with a good kydex or leather holster fitted for your gun there is no amount of movement or bumping that will pull the trigger. The only dangerous time is during holstering and drawing making sure your finger and any clothing does not contact the trigger.

Safeties: many prefer no safety on a carry gun as it's just one sort of unnecessary thing to worry about in a crisis. A 1911 still needs it as the only safe way to carry it chambered is in cocked and locked condition. Hammers are not likely to snag on the draw when cocked as they are usually pretty flush with the beaver tail. Never heard of this being an issue.
 
A couple of your concerns could be possibly alleviated by using a single clip kydex (hard shell) style holster, which are also the most common for AIWB.

The hard kydex will negate any chance you have of accidentally shooting yourself while the gun is in the holster, the trigger will be fully protected even when you bump, brush, adjust, etc.

Secondly, with the easy on/off single clip style (or multiple, just not as easy) you can just never holster the gun while on your belt. Holster up, clip on, go about your day, remove holster, place on night stand (this is my daily process). The fewer times the gun goes in/out of the holster, the fewer chances you have for an AD.
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This!
 
(Before I read down this thread...)

I am trying to figure out what kind of gun to carry (most likely AIWB).
. It about trigger type and safety.
I don't really see myself ever becoming full relaxed with the idea of carrying a cocked gun with a chambered round (the only way, right) in a compressed space pointed right at my femoral artery.
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AIWB is trendy right now among the internet cool kids. If you aren't comfortable with it, by all means, don't do it.

Obviously the options are DA/SA decocked, Striker, SA cocked and locked.
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1) there are more options than that. 2) "Striker fired" is a sloppy term that covers more than one type of trigger.

"Striker vs. hammer" is not, for me, a consideration at all. My little hoard is about evenly split.

- DA/SA this seems to have the best balance between simplicity (Striker) and safety (Cocked and Locked).
- Striker is safer than concocked and locked?:
- Safeties are bad?:
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The issue with a manual safety, is that one might forget to disengage it in the heat of a bad moment.

DA/SA guns may, or may not have a manual safety. Sometimes it's just a decocker, and they are left "hot", but with a long and relatively heavy first trigger pull.

Striker fired guns often do not, but sometimes do, have a manual safety.

It can all get very confusing for a newbie.

- Do hammers often get caught up in things on the draw?
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No idea. I doubt it.





- I assume all modern drop safeties/pin blocks are effectively same?
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Pretty much. Typically, a spring loaded pin that blocks forward travel of the firing pin or striker, until pushed out of the way by the action of the trigger.

Good for you, for trying to think this through. I wonder, though, if you're not overthinking all this. At this stage of the game, go for a medium sized 9mm from a major manufacturer with a reputation for reliable hardware and good customer support. Glock 19 is a typical suggestion. Eschew exotica. Carry it in a strong side belt holster, at 3 or 4 o'clock (or equivalent on the otehr side if you're left handed).

Get some instruction.
 
Regardless of what gun you go with or how you carry, you need to TRAIN/PRACTICE with it. That is the most important thing to remember.

I won't get into what platforms "I think" are safe or not, that's a decision each individual has to make for themselves. I will say that unless improperly handled or improperly holstered most modern pistols are pretty safe. Normally, guns don't just go off by themselves.

You have to figure out for yourself what you feel comfortable with and can shoot well with. And again, you need to actually put in the time regularly to be competent with it.


GL!
 
A CZ 75 Compact would be a great SA/DA gun that you could convert to cocked and locked when/if you go that way.
 
Let's keep it simple, foflks...

as a first CPL weapon, try a revolver, until you are comfortable and you have
more experience. then go for a semi.

Recommend shooting bowling pins with the CPL and carry ammo or equivalent
reloads.

good luck.
 
I have been carrying now for almost 21 years. You have been given a LOT of good advice. Great advice really. I'll add my 2¢, but keep it simple.

1) AIWB is miserable, mostly. 4 o'clock is pretty comfey. Use a holster wherever you carry.
2) A SA/DA in the DA mode USUALLY has the longest, heaviest trigger pull, and is the least likely to shoot you in the gooch during AIWB carry. Hammer fired DAO, Revolver, or a NY triggered Glock would be even better FOR THAT CONCERN.
3) These triggers CAN be mastered. DA revolver shooting was the bread and butter of law enforcement for many years. Learn to sweep the trigger fast while using good follow through on the sight picture.
 
I carry appendix for not only that I find it more comfortable. But i print less. At 3-5:00 I print when stretching, twisting, reaching, or bending. Also AIWB is faster to draw and easier for me when in a car or seated.
 
I would agree with several posters who suggested looking at some small revolvers. I was set on a semi when I was going for my first carry gun, but had many of the same concerns. So, I started looking into revolvers and ended up buying a Ruger SP101. To this day, it is my EDC gun, even though I have multiple semis with holsters.

Any and all arguments aside of what is "better" as a carry gun or round counts or anything..... you have to find the one that you are comfortable with. Mine happens to be a small revolver. Find one that you are comfortable with and forget about what other people tell you. You've had time to handle some guns, if you are still not sure, keep looking.. you'll know when you find it.
 
Go to a range that will let you rent guns and try a S&W shield 9 a Glock 43 and an XD-S 9 and figure out what you can shoot and run easily. I got the shield and it's easy to run the gun shoot it and field strip it
 
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