First amendment suspended on TFL

K

Keith Lerwick

Inactive
Is big brother watching? I read a book the other day that many webs sites are monitored by the government agencies. Could this backfire on members of the TFL? Just a question because of Anti gun politics being spread everywhere.
Keith

[This message has been edited by Keith Lerwick (edited April 09, 1999).]
 
WHile I was replying, the original poster re-wrote his commentary entirely.

As for Big Brother...I would assume they are watching. Someday we could torture them for that information :)


[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited April 09, 1999).]
 
CR that first post came from my wife, The Conspiracy Theorist, she is always telling me to stay off of these BBS because the Government can tell where I am coming from. I always reply, All they have to do read the profile. I am serious though, should we watch what we say or not? I am in finance so I know that BIG Brother monitors everything we do. PERIOD. Even in a town like Knoxville, The DOJ has seized papers from firms, banks, and other offices. So back to my original question, are BBS's monitored?
 
Keith..
BBS can be monitored, basically anything can be monitored. Your phones as well.
Now, are they monitored? Perhaps, perhaps not. Who is doing the monitoring: HCI or the Gov't? Nothing illegal has occurred here, no threats, no plotting the overthrow of the country, no illegal actions or anything. We are a level-headed bunch.
If the government wishes to monitor, there is nothing we can or choose to do about it...this is a public forum. However, in order for the government to find out who you are they need cause....some illegal action on your or our part...then they need to convince a judge of said illegality so the judge can issue supoenas for records from the various servers down to yours.

I'm not worried :)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Thanks for clearing that up. I am sorry I am not up on the legal stuff. You hear so much from so many different people you really don't know what to believe.

Sincerely
KEITH
 
DC, i know that you are far more informed than i on legal & political issues, and maybe my paranoia is showing, but i don't really believe they do any of those things if they just want to get info on you. if they are trying to build a case against you for court
yeah, that's what they're suppose to do. but in the deep, dark, untrusting, recesses of my mind, i believe they'll do anything they can
to get ya', IF, they want ya'. i guess
maybe i won't be labeled under your level headed catagory. ;)

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fiat justitia
 
Longhair...

You are still level-headed ;).

Seriously, TFL doesn't show IP addresses ( ###.###.###.###) so unless your email address is your server, the "observer" has nothing to go on.
You use a pseudonym and so do I...based on your profile I can deduce your server, but is your "name" your real initials? How big an area does your server serve...i.e. statewide? Do I track down everyone in your server's service area with those initials in the phone book and talk to each one to find out if its you? The quickest way is to supoena your server's records to find out who has your account. How do they get the supoena? They have to convince a judge to issue it based upon some evidence of wrongdoing or conspiracy. Meaning they'd have to print something out from this forum and show the judge that you are up to no good. Then they have to prove that its crucial to some important to some on-going investigation if they choose to sit on it. By this I mean, they can't just get a supoena, find out who you are and not do anything unless its an important ongoing investigation.
Further, as you said, if they want you they can do it......why would they want you? Its expensive to go after someone and as much as I like you, you my friend aren't worth it based on what you've posted here.
Finally, if you find out, they better have something worthwhile on you because you have a Federal based lawsuit against them and they do not like the bad publicity and the potential of paying big bucks.

Don't forget, in a bureaucracy any action generates paper and that paper must be fed and it all costs money. They have to do serious justification to start up that process, then if it is started, someone has to make it successful or pay the consequences in termination, career stalling, etc.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
A hypothetical analysis of TFL would simply remind the monkeys in the current administration that a LOT of law-abiding folks in this country are strong adherents of the Second Amendment. Furthermore: we cast our votes in every election, we vote pro-civil liberty, we contribute as good citizens to grassroots pro-gun efforts, we are quite capable of acting in concert, and we will not be propagandized. In sum, we are committed, free, honorable Americans (or, as the case may be, equally good citizens of other countries).

Not a bad message to get across.
 
Look, folks,

Putting stuff on BBs like this is like shouting it from the roof or broadcasting it on TV. Of course a Federal agent may monitor this, either because he has the same personal interests we do, or as part of his job. In any event, sounding off is one thing. But I hope no one on this site would ever advocate violence or state that he/she intended to or did commit a crime. In such a case, any LEO should act in accordance with a sworn duty to prevent a crime or arrest a person suspected of a criminal act. Let's keep things in a reasonable mode, under free speech, and no one will have anything to worry about.
 
Let 'em monitor if they want, I hope they are. There is alot more intelligence and common sense coming out of TFL than ever came out of Washington. :)
 
Grayfox - you took the words right off my keyboard (as I was reaching for the "Post Reply" icon). :) I hope HCI is listening. Maybe they'll see that we actually have fun being part of the gun culture and aren't the single-minded, crazy-go-nuts types. Maybe some of it will wear off on them. Naah!
 
Keith, I'm actually hoping the government does know where I'm coming from. My wife can never figure it out, so maybe they can explain it to her ... ;)
 
DC, thanks! you're the only one i know that'll call me level headed :D

longhair, on a borrowed 'puter, somewhere in
the ozarks!!!! :)

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fiat justitia
 
Fear is a tool used for suppression. Should I fear the government? Should I fear my neighbor? Should I fear my close friends? Fear breeds distrust. This distrust leads to isolation. Dealing with an indiviual is much easier than dealing with a group banded together over a common goal based in trust of his fellows.

Knowledge is one key to disolving fear. Faith is another.

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
The NSA operates, in cooperation with certain foreign governments, a system called Echelon. The NSA is not allowed to gather intel. on U.S. citizens but foreign governments do, so the info is traded. In fact they are in the same facility and just walk across the hall when they wish to exchange info. New Zealanders man the west coast operation and Brits on the east coast. Echelon is a huge all encompassing monitoring system designed to intercept telephone conversations, faxes, and all internet transmissions especially e-mail. For added security on the internet try using Anonymizer or Ulitmate-Anonymity.
 
A little closer to home....

Four students from a southern University in Georgia(I think) were caught because of an interception and monitoring of EMAIL accounts. I think they were going to blow up a REC center or some building on the campus. So iguess some monitoring isn't that bad.
 
There aren't enough resource for anyone to monitor all the activity on the 'Net. Couldn't the Gov't get the ip log of this for the site, then go track that to the ISP, then find out who was using that IP at the time? I'm sure the cookies story individual system information. if someone really wanted to find out exactly who you were they could, but its a lot of work for no convictions.
you should be more worried about the wire taps on the phone. and the late model american following you.
 
Virgil,

Are you really saying random illegal monitoring of conversations is ok as long as some potential lawbreaker is convicted?

Are you using this as a sarcastic counterpoint? I would like to have your viewpoint, esp as I think you are a LEO?

Noel
 
Well...

I am an LEO but don't miss understand me please. The situation I was speaking of they guy monitoring the EMAIL worked off a tip. I am all for individual rights; however, I fear that if everyone sits back and wait for something bad to happen, it more than likely will. I am not saying that illegal wire tapping and monitoring is the way to go, but everyones intentions may not be as pure as the next mans......SO THAT POSES A QUESTION......What is LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO? I dont have the answer. And to tell the truth I really don't know where I stand on the subject.
Virgil
 
Virgil

I understand as a lEO you deal with certain things that the average JOE(KEITH) like me will never encounter, but don't you think that it will be counter-productive if we exchange personal freedom for a feww more criminals behind bars.

I fully understand that we must give up certain personal freedoms for a civilized society,(SEE JOHN LOCKE) but I do think that is a bit overboard.

I must admit that you answer was quite mature in saying that you didn't have an answer. That show that your either an older man or have a bunch of kids.--HAHAHAHA--


From my point of view,
Keith
 
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