First 9mm reloads fired, now I need your advice please.

and I didn't want the hassle of speedloaders
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Heh. Different strokes . . . I love the hassle of speedloaders in competition. I shoot a speedloader fed Smith M67 in IDPA and ICORE - wouldn't want it any other way.

Yep, move up your charge weights on those 124's. 3.7 and 3.9 are the proper next steps. I have a feeling that the 3.9's will be the better shooters. But one step at a time - literally.
 
Our one revolver shooter that I have seen appeared to be saying bad, rude things to his speedloaders as he attempted to hold gun, cylinder and speedloader together as a unit, while turning the little knob that lets the cartridges fall into the cylinders, with only two hands. I am sure there is a knack to this, but I don't know what it is.

Having tried to do it myself once, I was not keen to try to repeat the experience under pressure.

As far as the loads go, I expect all ten test loads of 3.7 to cycle perfectly. I'm almost there with 3.5, so an extra 0.2gn should get things over the hump. I have also ordered a box of 125gn Speer lead RN bullets to give a try.

Incidentally, I telephoned Speer today to ensure I had load data for these before placing the order, as they are listed on the Speer website but the load data could not (at least as of this morning) be found either on said site or in Loading Manual #14, a situation regarding which the technician was most apologetic. He gave me what I wanted, then when I happened to ask casually whether a #15 manual was in the works, he said "They're shooting it as we speak!"

This is the good news. The bad news is, he told me publication is set for January 2018!! So I will be cooling my heels for a while, but as I will by then have had my copy of Speer #14 for almost a full ten years, I do not feel it unjustified to buy the replacement (especially given that #14 came basically 'for free' as part of my RCBS press kit).
 
as he attempted to hold gun, cylinder and speedloader together as a unit, while turning the little knob that lets the cartridges fall into the cylinders, with only two hands.
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He's using the old style speedloader. In competition, I use Safariland Comp III's. You just push them in and the speedloader thrusts the cartridges in with spring action. It's pretty fast. No turning of knobs - just push straight in.

http://www.safariland.com/products/...ver/speedloader---comp-iii-11232.html#start=1
 
A few points for you to consider...

a starting load ought at least to cycle the firearm, oughtn't it?
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you would think so, and I'm sure it did cycle THEIR TEST GUN!

Whether or not it cycles YOUR gun is a matter of chance. Every gun is a little different and even individuals of the same make, model & caliber can show differences in what it takes to run them reliably, and what their max pressures are.

Reloading data is a guideline. It shows what they tested, and what they got. Most guns fall into general groups, so what they got with what they used is PROBABLY CLOSE to what you will get. BUT it's not the same, cannot be identical, because you are not using the exact same things they are.

The big one is you are using YOUR gun, not theirs. And even if you are using as close as you can get to their components, its not precisely identical. And, then there are variations in how the ammo is actually loaded.

I've run low end loads that failed to cycle a 1911A1, and did cycle a Sig P220. Each gun is an individual, with a LOT of factors involved.

A word about your grip, how you grip the pistol does make a difference in how well it runs. And the "thumbs forward" grip, in the posted pic is only ONE way to shoot. It may be what all the top competitors are using these days, but they aren't shooting YOUR gun, or using your hands.

It's a good grip style for some things, and a horrible one for others.

There is a "trick" to using the "old style" (twist knob) speedloaders, and its a simple one. Learn to master the "loader" part first, THEN work on the "speed". ;)
 
>a starting load ought at least to cycle the firearm, oughtn't it?
---End Quote---
>you would think so, and I'm sure it did cycle THEIR TEST GUN!

Why? Most starting loads are simply:
1) a simple 10-12% reduction from max load
2) set so all loads start at the same velocity
and, rarely,
3) set so all loads start at the same pressure.

In no case is cycling part of the decision and most loads are tested in a single-shot Universal Receiver gun, as SAAMI testing is supposed to be done in a minimum dimension chamber, and not is a commercial gun.
 
As 44AMp says, Unless you have the same lot of powder, the same lot of bullets, the same primers and cases, loaded to the same COL and used in the SAME gun, how can you hope to be close to what they found with their test gun?
I am amazed that we do so well with data from a manual with so many variables all varying at the same time.
 
I am amazed that we do so well with data from a manual with so many variables all varying at the same time.
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The reason we do so well is that despite the huge number of variables that created measurable differences, the number of variables that create significant differences is fairly small.

Everything we make as a production item has tolerances, which are generally a range, not a precision point. The range is set so that everything within it works and is safe, but the fact that tolerances are a range means there are measurable differences.

Every now and then, these measurable differences "stack up" and create real significant differences. That's WHY there are starting loads, and max loads, and why they differ in different guns with different components.

It's why the number one rule of handloading is to be safe, and work up loads for your gun IN YOUR GUN, paying close attention to how your gun behaves, and not taking anyone's data, published or not, as gospel.
 
When working up pistol loads for target practice and range use, I work up a load until it functions 100% in my semi autos and produces decent accuracy.

Some powders I know, based on previous experience using them, will function reliably at the starting load listed in my load manuals. Power Pistol, Ramshot Silhouette, IMR 800X, and Hodgdon Longshot are such powders.

I have read several accounts of certain powders like Unique and 700X are pretty anemic at the starting loads, and can cause soot around the case mouth and feed/eject issues with semi autos. Once a load is worked up to the medium to near max recommended powder charge, they seem to function fine.

I perform the same load workup with every new pistol load that I try. I load from the starting load to max in .2gr increments, 10 rounds at each charge. I shoot 5 over the chronograph, and 5 at the target.

For plinking rounds, if function is 100% at the stating load then that's what I'll use. It saves powder and wear and tear on the firearm, and the recoil is mild. If loading pistol ammo for hunting or self defense use, I'm looking for a good mix of velocity, accuracy, and bullet expansion. This is usually found at mid to near max load levels.
 
noylj, I am not even firing for velocity, and if I were, I couldn't care less what I got - my approach is that of IdahoG36, climb the ladder until I find the first load that cycles reliably and stop there.

I don't care if those functioning loads are crawling out the barrel at 700fps. We shall see what happens when they meet steel plate. Right now I'm still trying to get my shooting consistent.
 
Stay between the min and max power load! Plan on problems if you go far below min as you did. Going extremely below starting loads can cause a bullet to lodge in the barrel with disastrous results if you then fire a second bullet behind it.

As mentioned do the "plunk test." Your overall length must be in a specific range for your barrel and your bullet. OAL, either too short or too long can cause failures to feed. Over all lengths given in the manuals are only a recommendation as most likely they are not using exactly the same shape bullet that you are. Here again the plunk test will help determine if your OAL is too long for your barrel. Get together with an experienced handloader in your area if you can. Most will be happy to assist you with your new hobby.
 
Please consider cleaning your chamber well, as a reloader who shoots a lot of mild loads I polish my chambers, have not has a feed failure in years except for a bad mag.
 
Judgecrater, I've been reloading per se for eight years, but this is both my first "straight walled" (or at least non-bottleneck) case, my first pistol cartridge, and my first time loading for a self-loader.

The underloads I got were direct from the mouth of someone at one of the powder companies.

I was well aware that I was starting very low relative to some published loads for other manufacturers' projectiles in these weights, and mindful of the implications which came from that. At all times, I shot for function, standing close enough to ensure that new holes were appearing in the target with every shot. Had this not happened, I would have been tipped off immediately about barrel lodgement

(I've had squibs before, due to failure to load, at various times, a .303 British cartridge and a .410 shotshell with the powder charge. So... been there, done that.)

Chamber got a damn good polish last time I shot. Although everything did, really, because it got a bit wet out there and I made sure it got a good wipe down.
 
The final report: 3.7gn behind the 124gn Winchesters cycled the action every time (10 rounds). 3.9gn (also 10) was little different, so I will either stay with 3.7 or split the difference at 3.8 and call it a day.

There was ONE failure to run fully into battery with each batch, which I think was probably assembly issues. My bad. But once they went in, they never failed to fire or eject, and all shots were observed to make holes on paper. This is good news. I think I will call it quits there, and not try to go any higher. Now that winter is properly setting in, shooting will be on the back-burner so if I reload 10 or 20 here or there I can have a sizeable stock by the time things start back up in 2017.

Thanks all for your help, advice and input.
 
Reloading can be a fun and very satisfying way to spend an evening especially when you (now) have some confidence in your load.

How was the accuracy?

Years ago I shot a lot of .45 ACP target and we did what you did, loaded up our 200 grain lead semi-wadcutters with just enough oomph to cycle the action. The cheapskates used 185 grain lead semi-wadcutters and probably saved a couple bucks during a season.
 
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