Walt Sherrill
New member
Aquila blanca said:
He'd probably would have learned the difference between a clip and magazine, too.
Firing without a magazine
- Thread starter Rj1972
- Start date
He'd probably would have learned the difference between a clip and magazine, too.
Back then the word clip was interchangeable with Magazine...
still not quite the proper term, but clip was faster to say and not be mistaken for another word.
Mag could be confused with Bag, and that's bad in a firefight.
Heh, lotta words can get confused in the soup, lol...KISS principle always applies
still not quite the proper term, but clip was faster to say and not be mistaken for another word.
Mag could be confused with Bag, and that's bad in a firefight.
Heh, lotta words can get confused in the soup, lol...KISS principle always applies
Brotherbadger
New member
I don't see any issue.
It still is, except to the purist, pedantic anal types.
Funny how nobody ever complains when someone uses the term "bullets" or "shells" instead of cartridges.
Anyway, since the OP clarified the situation, firing a gun with no magazine in place won't hurt the gun.
However, repeated chambering of a round then allowing the slide to slam home on the chambered cartridge can potentially damage the extractor, and, in the case of a .22RF, cause an AD.
The original reason for a magazine safety (or magazine disconnect, if you prefer) was that in an earlier day, many people thought that removing the magazine emptied the gun, not realizing there was a round in the chamber. Too often, the result was tragic. So, like many other safety devices on products, the machine was changed to make up for human ignorance.
Jim
Jim
M9 does have magazine safety.
I don't mean to disrespect our veterans, but I shot with a few previous members of our armed forces. The way they handle firearms may not make me feel comfortable to go to the range with them again. I believe part of the reason is the difference in doctrines then and now. For instance, before one is supposed to shoot a pistol single handed.
Anyway there is no mechanical danger to shoot a semi auto without a magazine. There is no definite answer whether magazine safety is safe. I personally don't like it. I may disable it but I will make damn sure nobody but myself will use the gun. Wrong assumption is the danger.
-TL
No, it doesn't. I wouldn't feel comfortable going to the range with someone who thinks it does.
The other issue that no one mentions is that the round chambering buffers the slide when going into battery. While frame battering gets a lot of discussion, the slide returns to battery with all the force the recoil spring absorbed from firing. The take down pin (or latch) and the lower barrel lug are not necessarily built for that sort of impact.
This is the same reason it is considered poor form to drop the slide on an unloaded gun.
As with most gun things, you can get away with it for awhile. But frequently operating the pistol outside the designed manual of arms is asking for trouble, long term.
A specific requirement for the M9 was that it NOT have a magazine safety. They didn't want anyone killed because he lost or accidentally dropped the magazine. Maybe not bad thinking for civilian pistol owners, either.
Another requirement, for both the M9 and the M1911, was that the pistol could be loaded with a single round if the magazine were lost or defective. Same reason.
Jim
Another requirement, for both the M9 and the M1911, was that the pistol could be loaded with a single round if the magazine were lost or defective. Same reason.
Jim
OK I had a Beretta 92 that I think has Mag safety. I assume it is the same as M9. I once had fail-to-fire at the range. The guy on the next lane pointed out my Mag was not all the way in. When I tapped it in the problem went away.
It was possible that the the Mag wasn't all the way in when I released the slide, so no round was chambered. In which case I stand corrected. Thanks.
-TL
It was possible that the the Mag wasn't all the way in when I released the slide, so no round was chambered. In which case I stand corrected. Thanks.
-TL
It was requested by the ...French!
While I can't point directly to a document, I have heard that the origin of the magazine disconnect was from a French request to FN, who included it in the final design of the High Power, after Browning's death. Apparently FN expected to sell a lot of them to the French, and were eager to please them by adding this feature. One should also note that despite FN's compliance, the French never bought many High Powers.....go figure...
I don't know if its true, or not, but if you are going to blame anyone for the idiocy of a magazine disconnect, it might as well be the French.
As to firing a pistol with the mag out, the only thing that is going to happen is after the round fires, the slide won't lock back on the empty mag (because its not there).
bledsoeG19
New member
Extractor is one thing that I could see taking the abuse, but what about the slide to barrel hood fit? With no magazine, there will be nothing keeping the slide from slamming into the barrel when it cycles. Seems abusive to the firearm. Shtf scenario.... sure..... everyday practice. .... not this guy.
Magazine disconnect safeties were around long before the French got involved with the Hi-Power. The FN Models 1906, 1910 and 1922 had them long before that, as well as Colt pocket autos.
Magazine disconnect safeties were experimented with on Luger pistols in the 1920s.
Mauser Models 1910/1914/1934 had magazine disconnect safeties.
Czech CZ 22, 24 and 27 had magazine disconnect safeties.
Some Spanish Ruby types had magazine disconnect safeties as well in the 1920s.
So...
No need to blame the French for anything here.
If you want to lay blame, place it on careless lackadaisical people who forgot to check the chamber after the magazine was removed and shot someone.
Then, after that, you can blame the lawyers.
That, as a rule is true, but I can see some benefit to a magazine disconnect; It keeps the idiot who is too absent minded or distracted to check the chamber of his gun from killing his friend. Nothing is perfect.
I don't like seatbelts in cars, either, but they do have benefits.
The Colt Model 1903 and 1908 pocket models and the Model 1908 vest pocket models did not have magazine safeties until the problem I mentioned above began to show up. Lawsuits were not invented last Monday at 9:00 AM, so Colt added that Tansley-designed safety around 1916.
Jim
Jim
leadcounsel
Moderator
Huh??
Any bullet, whether taken from the magazine or put in the chamber individually, will have the extractor engaged. When you pull the trigger, the explosion causes the slide AND extractor to pull the shell back and kick it out.
How does it matter how the round gets in the chamber (manually versus from the magazine)? In either case, the extractor has to "snap" over the rim of the cartridge...
I do not like mag disconnects. Sadly the SW Gen 3 have them as does the High Power.
I don't mind them in range guns, but don't want them in carry or defense guns.
Walt Sherrill
New member
That's not the question being addressed. In a subsequent reponse, the OP said he chambered a round in the usual manner and removed the mag -- he confirmed he wanted to know if FIRING the gun with the mag removed was an issue.
If there's a round in the chamber and the gun is fired, there's no problem at that point. The slide is closed and the round got there in the proper way. But with no mag in place, the slide won't lock back after the round is fired, and the slide will slam closed -- without the extra work of stripping a round from the mag and chambering that round. That extra force and speed CAN damage the extractor on some guns.
The question about what happened AFTER the round was fired.