Fired my pistol in SD tonight...

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In the "ideal" world I would just shoot the dog(s) and that would be that.

I don't live in an "ideal" world and know what the political landscape is here. As far as ever being bitten, yes. Once as a kid in the face, and again on the arm as an adult.

Yes, nerve, bone and muscle damage can and does occur. This is not a tactic I favor, but one that will hopefully let me continue living without sitting in a prison cell. I really don't believe the number of people here, where I reside, that think animals have "rights".

Anyway, I've posted enough on this topic and know what works for me.

Biker
 
Dog Attack Scenario

;)Dogs are just or can't be preditable. Yes, they could have come up to
you, sniffed and shown affection or they could have done the mentioned
things then got hostile. Dog's you don't know could very well put you
on unease. You did the best discouraging them and then shooting in a
safe place when they didn't respond. A dog bite burn's like hell. You
would have a legal action against owners if bitten but may have had a
good reason to shoot (IMO). Anyway, life seems to go on and no one's
bringing any charges against you. Good luck with your future carry.
 
would not have shot

I would not have shot from public right of way to private property as it sounds you may have done.
If legally on private property I would not have wasted shots on warnings.
If yelling and stompimg don't stop the animal I would shoot center mass.
The only time I shot at a dog he was about 18" away.
I don't fear dogs but shall not take a bite to let one live.
drawing your weapon seems proper but when they broke the charge shots may not have been needed.
Warning shots are just bad. they are reckless and I can't reconcile that fact.
 
Well, the warning shots seemed to work in this case. No one was hurt... including the dogs.

As far as private property goes, to me it's a non-issue. As long as my family and I haven't jumped the fence into somebody's back yard of course. Other than that, if I sense my family or I are even remotely in danger from a dog, sasquatch, giant rabbit, etc... my weapon will be drawn and any aggressive behavior will be followed by shots. It will be my decision on whether or not they are a warning or kill shots.
 
I know of someone who was bitten ONCE on the head by a large 120lb mixed breed dog. She had plastic surgery to repair her ear, 48staples on her scalp and forehead.

I would not bewilling to take a bite or let anyone else take a bite.

I think since you had time to draw your weapon and know your backstop that there was probably no real danger. If there was real danger they would have been on you. but otoh it could have turned dangerous real fast.

All in all, you did ok in my book. :)
 
FWIW - dogs' mouths are not as clean as sometimes said, and bite wounds frequently become severely infected. A doctor's care has to be recommended for a bite wound of any severity at all, because antibiotics are frequently indicated.

And as far as people taking responsibility for their pets - I can't count how many times I have treated dogs and cats that were hit by cars and listened to the owners angrily inveigh against the drivers, as if it is the responsibility of every driver on the planet to miss their dog, rather than their responsibility to keep the animal safe. Hope this doesn't qualify for a rant, but it is a pet peeve of mine and, more importantly, probably another indication of a societal tendency to blame others for the results of one's own poor judgment and lack of responsibility.

I feel better now, thanks.
 
When this discussion started, I initially thought that the OP's decision to draw and fire was reached too hastily. But after giving it some thought (with time that the OP did not have during the incident), I think that, other than the warning shots, he did what was necessary.

What would you do if you weren't armed? Probably shout a stern command to the dogs and back away. And what if that didn't work? Then you'd get attacked. But the OP was armed, so he had more options. It seems to me that firing one warning shot into the ditchbank (which I'll assume was a safe backstop) would be a reasonable reaction - the other would be to shoot the dog. Three shots has already been mentioned.

What else could he have done? Fired no warning shots and waited until the very last minute to shoot an attacking animal. But that runs the risk of waiting too long and, even more importantly, missing the shot and hitting the victim. He could have fired no shots and taken the actions of an unarmed person. I don't know about that - I'm not willing to put my family's well being up against that situation.

The only other thing that I would have done is this: After shooting and once I had determined that the threat was gone, either by the animals running away or by me and my family running away, I would have called 911 right away. Although the immediate danger was gone, the two dogs were still loose and shots had been fired...I want to be the guy to tell the police that I fired the shots and why - I don't want the police to be looking for me because somebody else called. Also, the OP had plenty of witnesses to back him up regarding his use of force.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the OP's use of force fit the description of use of force: he felt that his or his family's lives were in danger and he acted with the minimum amount of force necessary to resolve that danger.

And somebody needs to smack that neighbor around for letting his dogs run loose in that situation.
 
probly been said in here already...but rabbies vaccine is not a once bitten twice shy deal...nasty nasty nasty

my 70 pound doberman is pure sweetness but i have had her nip me while playing. i knew she was not trying to hurt me but WOW... just clipped my for a split second with her fron baby teath and it broke the skin through a winter carhart jacket!!!
 
Shooting a dog or someones pet is 10 years in prison where I live they concider it a crime here.It,s some kind of animal controll law here.
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I question whether that is an accurate statement of the law as it it written, which in any event would be a "human control law." :cool:

In any event, it is most unlikely that self-defense or defense of others from imminent risk of great bodily injury would not be a complete defense.

The notion that such a law might be on the books in some unmentioned state should not deter anyone from acting to protect humans from the risk of death or great bodily injury at the teeth of two large aggressive dogs (or even one).
 
I suspect that ten years for killing a pet law...

... pertains more to incidents like a recent one where some idiots did a drive-by shooting on a medically retired SEAL's service animal, just because they felt like it. Read about that one in a recent military online newletter.

I strongly doubt any state in the US would serve up prison time for a justifiable SD shooting against any animal.
 
As has been said, warning shots are bad mojo

I have found myself in similar situations.

Each time, I drew a mental line and told myself that if Fido crossed that line still showing agression he would be one dead dog.

NONE ever crossed the line.

They might not be able to recognize a gun, but they can recognize when you are prepared to defend yourself and have no fear.

I once saw about a 150-pound St. Bernard put a scared sheriff on the roof of a car but back down from a deputy that stood his ground and pulled a .357.

I think they can sense it.
 
For those saying they'll wait until they've been bitten to respond...

My grandfather bred rottweilers for years, he has several news clipping he collected over the years.

I remember more than one of rottweilers taking people's arms or legs off. Now the one's my grandfather had were things like a family dog stopping an attempted kiddnapping, or a police dog protecting his partner, but the damage itself should be noted.

Also one of the dogs my grandfather sold got out and was hit by a toyota corolla going 40 mph, totaled the car, left the dog with bruises and a limp for about a week. The driver in the car was injured worse than the dog, he broke his hand on something inside the car.

Not trying to demonize rotts, or say they're better than other breeds, they're just what I'm experienced with.

Now as to the OP's situation, I don't see a problem with his actions (except maybe the 3 shots, but that's been covered)

The results seem to show you did the right thing, so all I can say is glad everyone got out uninjured (I include the dogs in that)
 
What would you do if you weren't armed?
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I am unarmed while in public most of the time. Work at a college thing.

Seems to be a lot of dog attacks these days, read about em all the time. However I also see a lot of large dogs as a hunter etc. I usually walk with a walking stick, keen invention, long enough to fend off most anuimals, strong enough to whap one upside the head which usually makes him wish for other game.

In the city, it is illeagal to shoot a firearm like he described.
 
They might not be able to recognize a gun, but they can recognize when you are prepared to defend yourself and have no fear.

I once saw about a 150-pound St. Bernard put a scared sheriff on the roof of a car but back down from a deputy that stood his ground and pulled a .357.
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This is another take-away I learned from this incident. I honestly felt that portraying a forceful tone and fight ready (as opposed to flight ready) body language worked in my favor. Looking back I probably would've been okay with just commands, but that wasn't a chance I was willing to take. Quiet honestly, with children involved I'm still not willing to take it. I stand by my actions. Had it just been me, I would've held my ground and waited a minute or so to observe their demeanor. I didn't have that luxury at the moment, and I wasn't comfortable with dogs that size that I don't know being so close to small children given their body language up to that point.

Seems to be a lot of dog attacks these days, read about em all the time. However I also see a lot of large dogs as a hunter etc. I usually walk with a walking stick, keen invention, long enough to fend off most anuimals, strong enough to whap one upside the head which usually makes him wish for other game.
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That, good sir, is advice similar to what I'm looking for. I don't want to resort to a firearm if I don't have to. Perhaps a large stick would've actually been better in this case since all angles of fire were very screwed up (why I chose the ditch bank, and probably why I chose warning shots instead of engaging the dogs. I honestly couldn't tell you everything that was running through my mind). I may have to have a walking companion such as you describe for any more walks through the neighborhood.

And somebody needs to smack that neighbor around for letting his dogs run loose in that situation.
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I still haven't caught the neighbor at home yet, but this is the first time I've had a problem with this and he's been here probably 3 months now. I'm assuming he was out of town for the 4th, and the fireworks in the neighborhood un-nerved the dogs until the managed to chew out of their containment. While they weren't contained in a foolproof manner, I wouldn't exactly say it warrants smackinig the neighbor around just yet. Very frank and firm conversation, yes, but not smacking around.



Thanks for all of the replies and for sticking up for me when others were trying to paint me as someone waiting to "get my gun off". God bless :)
 
It took 14 stitches in my face to close the wounds from a friendly St. Bernard that trotted up with its tongue out and tail wagging. It was my own dog too. It gave me one quick nip and let go. If it was intent on hurting me seriously I have no doubt it would have done very, very severe damage. Saying that you'll "take a dog bite" from a large dog before you would shoot is pure ignorance. You may not get a CHANCE to fire a shot after that first bite. I doubt I could have fired with half of my face removed. (I got 6 stitches where the tooth entered next to my right eye socket and 8 stitches on the left side of my jaw) With that logic I should obviously get shot or stabbed before I shot in self defense too right? Or are you guys seriously posting on the internet that you value the life of a dog more than a human and would me more likely to shoot a human for a perceived threat than an animal? That would play very well in court indeed. Good luck with that.

My life is not there to trade with a dog's. If it threatens me I will defend myself as I would any threat. To do otherwise could be a grave mistake. Just my opinion.
 
I doubt the 10 year penalty for shooting a pet.

Currently if an animal is wrongly killed, unless there are unusual circumstances, you have to pay the replacement value of the animal.

I have heard of attempts to change the law so that monetary damages for things such as pain and suffering can be added when a family pet is concerned.

In cases of animal cruelty there can be a jail sentence. See Michael Vick.

Another thing to consider, if you wrongly shoot/injure an animal you could be liable for all of that animals vet bills. That can mount up into several thousand dollars.
 
Human vs animal body language

As other posters noted, our body language means something to the dog.

Establish that you are Alpha as quickly as possible. Assume your full height and an assertive body attitude. (picture a relaxed fighting stance) With either animal, command voice is a huge help. Learn it if you can. Done properly, you can convince most dogs not to close. (Trained guard/attack dog, be prepared for phase two...) The ideal here is calm, confident, controlled, but in command.

As far as non-lethal dog options:

Long sticks are good, if you carry one. The walking stick idea is excellent.

Dogs don't like pepper spray. If it's legal where you live, that could be a good investment. Try to be aware of wind direction.

Water hoses or buckets of cold water work surprisingly well, but most of us don't walk around with those...

If you are not armed, I've found that when it comes to physical engagement (IE pulling dogs off other dogs or people) the two methods that have worked best for me have been:

1) bury the dog with body weight, if it's large, and take a position behind it with a grip similar to a half nelson (gives it nothing to bite); immobilize it, but talk in a calm, soothing manner - idea is to show that you are boss, but you don't intend to harm the dog - this has worked for me on separate occasions with a mastiff, a great pyrenee, and a dobermann.

2) take it up into the air by the back of the neck, if light enough (60lbs or smaller). Mother dogs shake a pup by the nape, so this establishes dominance on a very primal level for the dog. The grab technique I use for this is not quite an openhanded punch, but it's a hard sweep. I'll either take the dog completely off the ground, or up vertical with its hind legs barely touching. This has worked with smaller boxers and pit bulls.

In either case, take control, but try to calm the dog. You want it to respect you, not become crazed by fear. In either case, do not release the dog until its attitude has calmed down. You have the tiger by the tail until that point.

One thing you cannot do with the dog is act tentatively. The owners I've seen get bitten have all been extremely timid about physical engagement. If you have to engage, engage decisively.
 
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