Fired Canton, Ohio Patrolman Daniel Harless Gets His Job Back
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Double Naught Spy
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Probably not unless...
He probably hasn't been adjudicated as mentally defective or committed to any mental institution. Note that volunary treatments don't count for being committed.
He probably hasn't been adjudicated as mentally defective or committed to any mental institution. Note that volunary treatments don't count for being committed.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Speaking as a veteran ... don't even start with the PTSD bit. There has been a lot of talk among certain circles over the past year or three about automatically barring anyone diagnosed with or treated for PTSD from firearms ownership -- FOR LIFE. Considering that a comparatively huge percentage of veterans returning from the sandboxes these days either have PTSD or probably have symptoms and haven't been diagnosed, this would be a terrible thing.
There's nothing wrong with the rules as they currently stand. Harless is a loose cannon. As far as I'm concerned, he has already had his second chance -- the incident that cost him his job was not the first time he threatened a citizen. The real issue about Harless and PTSD is that people with active cases of PTSD probably shouldn't be police officers, because being a police officer in some areas is a high-stress occupation.
There's nothing wrong with the rules as they currently stand. Harless is a loose cannon. As far as I'm concerned, he has already had his second chance -- the incident that cost him his job was not the first time he threatened a citizen. The real issue about Harless and PTSD is that people with active cases of PTSD probably shouldn't be police officers, because being a police officer in some areas is a high-stress occupation.
Stressfire
New member
Hey, now....some of us have to live here
That really would be a poor door to open. Medical community is already too involved - a la, "Do you have any weapons at home" on intake forms or asked in person.
Bingo
Also, if there is ANYTHING in your life that has ever caused you stress (and that can include the death of your beloved Grandma when you were 8, for example), AND there is ANYTHING in your life (attitude, social behavior, physical appearance, etc...) that falls even a tiny bit outside what the evaluator considers "normal", AND taking no account of whether or not this "abnormality" is in any way harmful to anyone, you can be classed as "suffering from PTSD".
To give an extreme example, if you are a veteran (because after all, ANY military service, ever is stressful) and you didn't vote for Obama (which, clearly any and every safe and sane person would have done), then, in the evaluators opinion, you are a dangerously stressed PTSD "victim" and should NEVER have ANY access to ANY dangerous weapon. Sharp kitchen knives and matches included!
Without meaning to paint all with the same broad brush, there ARE people in the mental health industry with their own biases and agendas. If you happen get into a situation where one of them is your "evaluator", you can be in for a lot of trouble, no matter who you are, or what you have, or have not done.
To give an extreme example, if you are a veteran (because after all, ANY military service, ever is stressful) and you didn't vote for Obama (which, clearly any and every safe and sane person would have done), then, in the evaluators opinion, you are a dangerously stressed PTSD "victim" and should NEVER have ANY access to ANY dangerous weapon. Sharp kitchen knives and matches included!
Without meaning to paint all with the same broad brush, there ARE people in the mental health industry with their own biases and agendas. If you happen get into a situation where one of them is your "evaluator", you can be in for a lot of trouble, no matter who you are, or what you have, or have not done.
Cop-bashing; another high profile incident...
This topic is real easy to slide into cop-bashing which I want to avoid BUT these are all valid points being posted in the forum.
I wanted to add that in my metro area, a retired police officer is now on trial for shooting & killing his son in a heated dispute.
The retired police officer & his lawyers want to use the state's "stand your ground" law(s) as a defense.
The ex-cop is on video during part of the fight, following his son into the driveway, then later(off-camera) he shoots a firearm, wounding his adult son.
Sworn LE officers(just like regular citizens) can't just; "lose it" or fly off the handle then not be held accountable for their violent or unstable behavior.
Clyde
This topic is real easy to slide into cop-bashing which I want to avoid BUT these are all valid points being posted in the forum.
I wanted to add that in my metro area, a retired police officer is now on trial for shooting & killing his son in a heated dispute.
The retired police officer & his lawyers want to use the state's "stand your ground" law(s) as a defense.
The ex-cop is on video during part of the fight, following his son into the driveway, then later(off-camera) he shoots a firearm, wounding his adult son.
Sworn LE officers(just like regular citizens) can't just; "lose it" or fly off the handle then not be held accountable for their violent or unstable behavior.
Clyde
Final Decision
Final decision.
...
Police officer Harless resigns
City, officer Daniel Harless reach settlement agreement. Harless, who threatened to kill a motorist during a June 2011 traffic stop, won't return to the police department. emailprint 2
Posted Nov. 5, 2013 @ 1:34 pm
CANTON
Police officer Daniel Harless, who threatened to kill a motorist during a June 2011 traffic stop, won't return to the police department.
The city reached a settlement with Harless Tuesday that resolves all legal disputes.
The city agrees to the following:
• Pay Harless $40,000 within 30 days.
• Not challenge Harless's participation in the state workers' compensation system. Harless suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder from a 2003 incident.
• Issue Harless a retired-officer ID upon his providing proof of regular or disability retirement through the Ohio Police and Fire Pension System.
• Provide a neutral recommendation for all future employment, providing only factual details of his employment. The settlement acknowledges that
Harless agrees to:
• Resign in writing effective from the termination date on January 2012.
• Drop all other legal claims and grievances against the city.
• Not seek future employment with the city.
• Not file any future claims against the city.
Harless became the center of controversy after video surfaced on the Internet of his conduct during a traffic stop in the early morning hours of June 2011. Harless is seen screaming at the driver, William Bartlett of Brewster, for failing to immediately notify him that he was carrying a concealed weapon.
The city fired Harless, a 15-year veteran of the police force, after discovering two similar incidents. Last year, an arbitrator ordered that Harless be returned to work pending medical clearance. In a rare move, the city appealed the arbitrator's binding decision, saying that it was flawed and did not set a limit to when Harless could return to work.
As part of the settlement, which was reached after months of ongoing discussions between the city and Harless's attorney, both sides agree that they will make no public comment.
Reach Matthew at 330-580-8527 or
matthew.rink@cantonrep.com.
On Twitter: @mrinkREP
Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20131105/NEWS/131109669/1001/NEWS?rssfeed=true#ixzz2jp1Lrs3Q
Final decision.
...
Police officer Harless resigns
City, officer Daniel Harless reach settlement agreement. Harless, who threatened to kill a motorist during a June 2011 traffic stop, won't return to the police department. emailprint 2
Posted Nov. 5, 2013 @ 1:34 pm
CANTON
Police officer Daniel Harless, who threatened to kill a motorist during a June 2011 traffic stop, won't return to the police department.
The city reached a settlement with Harless Tuesday that resolves all legal disputes.
The city agrees to the following:
• Pay Harless $40,000 within 30 days.
• Not challenge Harless's participation in the state workers' compensation system. Harless suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder from a 2003 incident.
• Issue Harless a retired-officer ID upon his providing proof of regular or disability retirement through the Ohio Police and Fire Pension System.
• Provide a neutral recommendation for all future employment, providing only factual details of his employment. The settlement acknowledges that
Harless agrees to:
• Resign in writing effective from the termination date on January 2012.
• Drop all other legal claims and grievances against the city.
• Not seek future employment with the city.
• Not file any future claims against the city.
Harless became the center of controversy after video surfaced on the Internet of his conduct during a traffic stop in the early morning hours of June 2011. Harless is seen screaming at the driver, William Bartlett of Brewster, for failing to immediately notify him that he was carrying a concealed weapon.
The city fired Harless, a 15-year veteran of the police force, after discovering two similar incidents. Last year, an arbitrator ordered that Harless be returned to work pending medical clearance. In a rare move, the city appealed the arbitrator's binding decision, saying that it was flawed and did not set a limit to when Harless could return to work.
As part of the settlement, which was reached after months of ongoing discussions between the city and Harless's attorney, both sides agree that they will make no public comment.
Reach Matthew at 330-580-8527 or
matthew.rink@cantonrep.com.
On Twitter: @mrinkREP
Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20131105/NEWS/131109669/1001/NEWS?rssfeed=true#ixzz2jp1Lrs3Q
LEOSA?....
So will this ex-cop now be able to get LEOSA(Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act) status?
This seems to be a real travesty of justice/social policy.
The ex-CA cop who used a Mk 9 chemical agent on the group of college protestors got a big check too.
One local sworn LE officer just recently went back on the road(full duty) after being cleared for his role in a multiple shooting.
The same cop was sued in federal court for knocking a 83 year old WWII veteran down & breaking his neck.
The veteran asked the police officer why his vehicle was being towed. He got a $887,000.00 judgement from the city government. The PD cleared the officer of all wrong-doing.
Clyde
So will this ex-cop now be able to get LEOSA(Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act) status?
This seems to be a real travesty of justice/social policy.
The ex-CA cop who used a Mk 9 chemical agent on the group of college protestors got a big check too.
One local sworn LE officer just recently went back on the road(full duty) after being cleared for his role in a multiple shooting.
The same cop was sued in federal court for knocking a 83 year old WWII veteran down & breaking his neck.
The veteran asked the police officer why his vehicle was being towed. He got a $887,000.00 judgement from the city government. The PD cleared the officer of all wrong-doing.
Clyde
Unless there is something within the settlement that we aren't being told, the majority of that money will go to paying attorney fees. Depending upon how the settlement is worded, Harless will end up paying taxes on the whole amount.
Once Harless establishes his disability, yes, he will be entitled to a LEOSA permit.
Once Harless establishes his disability, yes, he will be entitled to a LEOSA permit.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
These kind of deals never make anyone happy. The important thing for the City of Canton is to understand exactly what it wants and what it's willing to pay to get it.
I suspect that the what the City of Canton wanted most was (1) Harless is not going to be a Canton cop anymore; and (2) it's over. And the City could reasonably conclude that it makes better business sense to pay what it did in exchange for the certainty that Harless isn't coming back to the job then to continue to pay legal bills and risk a bad result or protracted litigation and mounting expenses.
Welcome to reality.
I suspect that the what the City of Canton wanted most was (1) Harless is not going to be a Canton cop anymore; and (2) it's over. And the City could reasonably conclude that it makes better business sense to pay what it did in exchange for the certainty that Harless isn't coming back to the job then to continue to pay legal bills and risk a bad result or protracted litigation and mounting expenses.
Welcome to reality.
Rampart....
A good example/story about these types of events is the low budget, independent film; Rampart.
Woody Harrelson plays a crusty LAPD patrol officer & SE Asia combat veteran who gets in constant disputes & civil actions due to his misconduct.
There's a scene where the LA city atty laments how city governments can not fire or get rid of some officers & they go on to cost the taxpayers millions of $$$ due to their gross misconduct or excessive force.
It's a interesting drama that really shows how flawed the system is in some ways.
Clyde
A good example/story about these types of events is the low budget, independent film; Rampart.
Woody Harrelson plays a crusty LAPD patrol officer & SE Asia combat veteran who gets in constant disputes & civil actions due to his misconduct.
There's a scene where the LA city atty laments how city governments can not fire or get rid of some officers & they go on to cost the taxpayers millions of $$$ due to their gross misconduct or excessive force.
It's a interesting drama that really shows how flawed the system is in some ways.
Clyde
Yes, Welcome to reality.
Having experienced 33yrs of watching things very similar to this happening in which a public servant should have not only been fired for their actions but in many cases should have been criminally prosecuted, only to end up prolonging the case through arbitration till said employee could get their ducks in order and fall out on disability. Collecting not only their pension but disability on top of that, often times resulting in an income of more then what they were making when they were working....and all paid with our tax $'s.
Only in America.
If only the public really knew.
With the billions of tax dollars being paid out over the years in cases just like this one, and knowing these tax $ will be paid out yearly to the x-employee for the rest of his/her life...one has to wander...is it really less expensive in the long run to settle a lot of these cases out of court just so they will 'go away' rather then spend the money up front and prosecute or fight them to the max.
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
It actually might still be if there's a reasonable risk that at the end of things the result might still be highly unsatisfactory, e. g., an order that the lousy employee be given his job back with back pay. Sometimes with a really bad employee, like Harless, the most important thing can be that you can be sure that you'll be rid of him for good.shortwave said:
Hope it isn't a burgeoning national trend:
We're firing and re-training here. The original incident is deplorable. We're not quite down to Ohio's level.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_...earch-www.dailycamera.com-www.dailycamera.com
Not trying to take this into the weeds, just want to point out that a whole lot of LEOs are unfamiliar with Amendment 4.
We're firing and re-training here. The original incident is deplorable. We're not quite down to Ohio's level.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_...earch-www.dailycamera.com-www.dailycamera.com
Not trying to take this into the weeds, just want to point out that a whole lot of LEOs are unfamiliar with Amendment 4.
Just for clarity...
The disgrace Harless put on ALL LE should not be thought of as an
'Ohio' problem or a problem with all LE , but more of Canton, Ohio problem. As a rule, Ohio's LEO's have a good reputation as due most LE agency's throughout the country.
Harless was/ probably still is a bad apple that makes it tough for every cop out there on the street.
The disgrace Harless put on ALL LE should not be thought of as an
'Ohio' problem or a problem with all LE , but more of Canton, Ohio problem. As a rule, Ohio's LEO's have a good reputation as due most LE agency's throughout the country.
Harless was/ probably still is a bad apple that makes it tough for every cop out there on the street.
Hitthespot
New member
I agree with it not being a state wide probem, but it was a deeper problem than just one officer. I followed this story very closely. The officer, city officials and the mayor of Canton's actions during this travesty in my opinion was more than appauling. To read this latest developement seems like a episode of the twilight zone. If it was not for that video tape that man would probably be in prison right now, or at least in serious trouble. Who is on this board that cleared him? Police officers right? You can be their tied to the City in some way shape or form. It definintely was not members of the Ohio Carry Association. I am so disgusted right now.
cryogenic419
New member
As an Ohio resident I have to say, this guy and the actions of that one particular city are not representative of what goes on all over Ohio. I can honestly say the LE folks I have dealt with just out and about or getting pulled over for a burned out tail light, they seem to be genuinely nice folks just out trying to do their job.
Throwing out a blanket statement like LEO's are bad, crazy, control freaks, etc or that Ohio is a bad place to be because of one incident...that is about as inaccurate as saying all gun owners are bad because of a few nutjobs in high profile shootings.
Throwing out a blanket statement like LEO's are bad, crazy, control freaks, etc or that Ohio is a bad place to be because of one incident...that is about as inaccurate as saying all gun owners are bad because of a few nutjobs in high profile shootings.
While there's no question of the outright wrongdoing and embarrassment Harless caused the city of Canton, IMO, a few of Cantons city officials embarrassed the city as well. Prior and throughout the whole ordeal.
But again, it's a 'city of Canton' problem. The city of Canton surely does not represent the entire state of Ohio on anything. Far as that goes, if it wasn't for the 'Football Hall of Fame' being in Canton, I doubt people would even know Canton exists.
Course, since the incident happened in Canton and Canton happens to be in the state of Ohio, there will be some that will connect the actions that happened in Canton to the rest of the state.
For that, on behalf of myself, all the residents and LEO's in the rest of the state...a big THANK YOU to not only Harless but the Canton officials for the embarrassment you've caused our state. Great job!
It's safe to say that Harless does not represent the government or the people of Ohio. His actions are atypical and unacceptable for his post, and he has been removed from it.
Before we get into any more blatant stereotyping or rhetorical histrionics, I'm going to shut this one down.
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