Firearms transshipment and UPS

R

RWK

New member
This morning's radio news indicates UPS will soon stop accepting firearms for shipment to and from manufactures, gunsmiths, etc. The news report was brief and fragmentary; therefore, I'm not sure it's accurate, when it will happen, and if it will apply to all firearms or just to handguns.

If true, what transportation means are left? It is my understanding -- but I'm certainly not an expert -- that the Postal Service doesn't ship firearms, even via registered mail (??). How about FedEx's policies?

Can any member educate me re: (a) the validity of the UPS news story and (b) what firearms (particularly sidearms) transshipment means would remain.

Thanks to all.
 
This is news to me.



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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
According to CNN's page it applies only to handguns shipped via ground service. Long arms are still okay and handguns can be overnighted.
 
I heard about UPS's decision from my dealer yesterday afternoon and on NPR this morning. According to the reports, UPS will no longer ground-ship handguns as of this coming Monday. Apparently, UPS will still ship handguns by air, but of course this will be much more expensive.

UPS says that it's made this decision in order to reduce the possibility of the theft of handguns. I wonder if UPS is admitting that at least part and probably most of the theft problem is with its own employees, and that it can't control the security of shipments within its own care. I'm reading between the lines here, after having learned that my Beretta .380 was one of dozens of Berettas stolen from UPS a couple of years ago.

IOW, "the tightest ship in the shipping business" has sprung a leak. UPS's new policy is little more than an admission of failure. It also demonstrates that while we should do what we can to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the criminals will always find a way to get guns no matter what we do.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited October 07, 1999).]
 
Here is the USA article:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/digest/nd1.htm

It is the second artilcle on the page!

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To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state.

I ALSO AM GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN, BECAUSE IT WAS DELETED AS THE HEADER FOR THE SAME POST THAT WAS LOCKED IN ANOTHER AREA OF THE FORUM
I BELIEVE THIS IS A CONSPIRACY

[This message has been edited by Elker_43 (edited October 07, 1999).]
 
UPS brags on its website about the number of people it has hired from welfare rolls, which might be a clue why they have so many thefts. Recently, two UPS mutts stole several Ruger handguns from their Addison, Il., depot and only the local cops were notified. If theft of a weapon from interstate shipment is a federal crime, why didn't UPS call the FBI? Their new decison is a pathetic answer to a problem they contributed to.
 
I'm afraid that if this comes to pass, its going to drive up prices that much more. When shipping prices go up, as in mail order catalog shopping shipping charges + resale taxes, people start questioning whether or not a small purchase is worth the cost. If someone wants to ship a gun back to have something minor done, what's it going to cost? An extra $20 or so? And if the company charges return shipping, $40 or so added to the total price? I don't know, haven't overnighted anything lately or gone FedEx. I'm going to check into the other competition...RPS. What we need is MORE competition in the shipping market. Anyone here want to start a firearm friendly major shipping corporation?

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)


[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited October 07, 1999).]
 
According to Neal Knox from his website,he stated a few years ago an OOPS driver in Washington,DC was finally caught after stealing between 300-400 guns. That's not a very tight ship.

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Without the 2nd Amendment,the Declaration of Independence is an old post card and the entire Constitution is just notes from a bridge club meeting.
 
I have not seen any official word from UPS but the morning Business Report from NBC alluded to the company wanting to distance itself from litigation involving handgun masacrees! You know the drill.
My company has had mysterious losses using several common carriers and employee theft is apparent in most cases. We receive class rings from our manufacturer. Class rings can be ordered in gold or nonprecious metal. When boxes of rings started arriving with the gold rings missing and the others resealed in the original shipping container we knew something was afoot!
I have a call in to my UPS account rep. I will await his statement. On the other hand, my RPS driver who BTW owns his own truck and route, is firearms friendly may get more of my outbound business!
 
This is interesting:

My local news just broadcasted it...but get this...they said "UPS will not ship handguns anymore"...nothing about ground or air. So I called them up and they said "how do we know what you say is true? Who are you?"
I countered..."I'm an average person interested in firearms....and every other news service and newspapers stated that UPS won't ship handguns by ground service...they will by air which triples the cost of shipment....further, this doesn't apply to you or me...its from manufacturer to dealer and dealer to dealer..therefore, you are broadcasting false info and I wonder about your motives. Further, this story is 2 days old and everyone else has it correct...what's your problem?"

She stammered and hung up :)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Boycott UPS! They are doing the same thing Politicians do, Punishing the Many Good for the Actions of the Few Bad.

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FREEDOM AIN'T FREE!
 
Hello, fellow TFL members. Based on what I have read so far in CNN/TACTICS-L listing, it appears that all other carriers besides UPS pretty much require priority air service for handgun shipment.

I was wandering if we (collectively --- manufacturer, distributor, dealer, us end consumers) can force UPS to change its mind by trying to negotiate a deal with one of UPS's major competitors. Any ideas?

Shutoku Shia
shia@dataphysics.com
San Jose, California
 
I asked my regular driver about it today and he didn't know what I was talking about.
It will filter down from KY as soon as Corp puts it out. IMHFO most policy changes don't take very long. Best case, February is when UPS sends everything out in writing.
BTW I have always shipped handguns "for repair or upgrade" by NEXT DAY when using UPS even going to Wilsons or Clark which both are only a day away from me!
Sort of like using registered Mail, less folks see it but they are held accountable for it!
I'm not ready to give up UPS because the give the best short distance delivery times but[/] if they ever go on strike again...
Hank Lampe
 
Interesting:
When UPS was willing to ship our handguns, nobody said "thank you"; nobody talked about boycotting FedEx....we treated it as our birthright and assumed they only did it to line their pockets.

Now that they've made a business decision that the pilfering cost isn't worth it, we call it "political". I'm no happier about this than any here, but let's face it people, UPS isn't the enemy.
Rich
 
From what I have heard/radio news items, and read at UPS web site, the facts are as follows:
1. Re handgun shipments, next day air, which means "overnight".
2. Long guns, as before.

If memory serves, this for historical interest, UPS at one time, refused to accept firearms(long gun)shipments from unlicensed individuals. They claimed, wrongly, that federal law forbid such shipments. It didn't.

One possibility in all this comes to mind, perhaps because Iam simply a suspicious type. What we see here, is simply the operation of GREED, on the part of UPS, just as is the case with their ever escalating HAZMAT charges for shipments of smokeless powder and primers. Last time I looked, it was $12 per package. As I recall, it started, not that many years ago, at a dollar or two.

What else is new??
 
I think alan nailed it.

Think about it...nothing is different except the way they are shipped...air. More security, less handling time and much more money.

Now think about tobacco....more handling, taxes, etc. Bad, evil stuff...soak them while its legal. Read California, read the Feds

Basically a vulnerable business....soak them for mas dinero

I'm thinking...tacit collusion

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Rich:

With all due respect, we thanked UPS everytime we paid them to ship our firearms. The fact that their corporate security division was not competent enough to correct the situation is only part of the problem...the rest, IMHO, is that they are now going to knuckle under to the mere threat of tort action against them.

I agree that UPS isn't the enemy, but they have chosen to become part of the problem by taking the easy way out.

Mike
 
Okay, I'm probably going to ruffle a few feathers here....

I don't have a problem with UPS refusing to ship handguns by standard overland service because:
- They'll still ship them, therefore they're not anti-gun - they understand the theft problem is theirs, not that they're shipping those "evil things"
- They're financially liable for every package that disappears under their care
- They haven't changed their policy with regards to long guns (they'll still ship Class III's)
- They're a private business - they have the right to refuse to ship whatever they want, whereever they want, for any reason they choose - and yet, they'll still ship them.

I'm sure this was a cost/liability issue. Someone mentioned the employee that stole 400+ firearms. Think about it - first, UPS has to pay for the firearms that disappeared under their care, then they have to send someone to court to testify against them, replace the incarcerated employee(s), then they have to worry about whether one of those items stolen from their watch is used in a violent crime and hope they don't get sued. All they're doing is reducing the risk of handguns disappearing by reducing travel time & handling. It was probably a choice between overnighting them all, or starting some sort of "high security" shipping system that would cost everyone more money whenever they shipped a package. Handguns were singled out in the overnight policy because they're small, portable, and easy to smuggle out (easy to carry = easy to steal). Yes, we wind up bearing the cost, but all customers everywhere bear the costs of theft - including increased security. Who do you think pays for all the goods UPS has to replace - the customers, or the CEO?
 
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