Firearm's Owners Unification Project is READY TO LAUNCH!!!
- Thread starter Rob Pincus
- Start date
- Status
Here is some food for thought regarding FOUP. First, I support the
concept of FOUP. However, I am concerned about the content of the
proposed message. How can FOUP supporters get the most bang for their buck?
Here are my opinions. I submit that the general public, the
politicians, and especially the antigun activists already know that
there is a "small" percentage of people who strongly support the 2nd
amendment and strongly oppose any more anti-gun legislation. I don't
think that you could put enough names on an ad to impress anyone by
the numbers of supporters. In fact, the act of purchasing the ad is a
show of strength of financial support. (The actual names of
contributors could be placed on a dedicated web page which is
referenced in the ad.)
Therefore, in addition to the announcement of the intent to unify and
defend, I suggest that FOUP jump right in to the defense part with the
presentation of fact as a rebuttal to the anti-gun propaganda. I
would like to see some of the fallacies of the anti-gun positions
revealed. I would like to see some clarification of the issues and
discussion of the realities of the future of firearms in the USA. I
think a rational presentation of facts would greatly strengthen the ad
and generate more popular support.
As an example, here is the transcript of the online discussion with
Schumer on abc news. For an exercise, find all the assumptions and
fallacies he uses to support his newly introduced legislation. It is
scary how subtly his antigun agenda is infused into his thought
process. The "problem" is gun sales, not illegal use of guns or even
illegal gun sales! He finds the volume of firearms advertising
"chilling" even if these are completely legal and not used in any
criminal activity. Although he says that he wants to simply enforce
the existing laws, he wants to introduce a new law requiring anyone
who wants to advertise firearms for sale to register with the BATF!
Now that is chilling. People need to understand the reality that our
country is on the path to prohibitive gun laws found in Japan,
England, Australia, etc.
Sen. Charles Schumer at 2:56pm ET
I want to apologize to everyone for being a little late. We were
voting on the floor of the Senate on an amendment for Missile
Defense, but let me talk a little bit about the legislation I
introduced today. We have a problem with gun sales made over
the Internet. Under the anonimity of the Web strangers met on
the Internet under aliases, descretly bid for guns and make the
sale with no questions asked. Some of the people who make
these sales are doing it legally, but many are not and these types
of sales blow a hole through the heart of the Brady law. Gun
trafficers have found a new avenue for dealing guns to criminal
the mentally infirm and the under-aged, which is the Internet.
The firepower available on the Internet is chilling. Machine
guns assault weapons and cheaply made pistols are available in
cyberspace for the taking. And they are available to those who
could never buy a gun under the Brady law.
Sen. Charles Schumer at 2:59pm ET
The legislation that I have introduced today will require the
same rules taht apply to regular gun sales, to apply to Internet
gun sales. Only federally licensed gun dealers will be able to
post guns on their web site and licensed web site operators will
to register with teh ATF so they can be monitored like any
other gun dealer. The bill requires that all guns sold through the
internet be transfered through a licensed firearms dealer in the
buyers state before the gun could be transfered to the buyer for
a Brady check.
concept of FOUP. However, I am concerned about the content of the
proposed message. How can FOUP supporters get the most bang for their buck?
Here are my opinions. I submit that the general public, the
politicians, and especially the antigun activists already know that
there is a "small" percentage of people who strongly support the 2nd
amendment and strongly oppose any more anti-gun legislation. I don't
think that you could put enough names on an ad to impress anyone by
the numbers of supporters. In fact, the act of purchasing the ad is a
show of strength of financial support. (The actual names of
contributors could be placed on a dedicated web page which is
referenced in the ad.)
Therefore, in addition to the announcement of the intent to unify and
defend, I suggest that FOUP jump right in to the defense part with the
presentation of fact as a rebuttal to the anti-gun propaganda. I
would like to see some of the fallacies of the anti-gun positions
revealed. I would like to see some clarification of the issues and
discussion of the realities of the future of firearms in the USA. I
think a rational presentation of facts would greatly strengthen the ad
and generate more popular support.
As an example, here is the transcript of the online discussion with
Schumer on abc news. For an exercise, find all the assumptions and
fallacies he uses to support his newly introduced legislation. It is
scary how subtly his antigun agenda is infused into his thought
process. The "problem" is gun sales, not illegal use of guns or even
illegal gun sales! He finds the volume of firearms advertising
"chilling" even if these are completely legal and not used in any
criminal activity. Although he says that he wants to simply enforce
the existing laws, he wants to introduce a new law requiring anyone
who wants to advertise firearms for sale to register with the BATF!
Now that is chilling. People need to understand the reality that our
country is on the path to prohibitive gun laws found in Japan,
England, Australia, etc.
Sen. Charles Schumer at 2:56pm ET
I want to apologize to everyone for being a little late. We were
voting on the floor of the Senate on an amendment for Missile
Defense, but let me talk a little bit about the legislation I
introduced today. We have a problem with gun sales made over
the Internet. Under the anonimity of the Web strangers met on
the Internet under aliases, descretly bid for guns and make the
sale with no questions asked. Some of the people who make
these sales are doing it legally, but many are not and these types
of sales blow a hole through the heart of the Brady law. Gun
trafficers have found a new avenue for dealing guns to criminal
the mentally infirm and the under-aged, which is the Internet.
The firepower available on the Internet is chilling. Machine
guns assault weapons and cheaply made pistols are available in
cyberspace for the taking. And they are available to those who
could never buy a gun under the Brady law.
Sen. Charles Schumer at 2:59pm ET
The legislation that I have introduced today will require the
same rules taht apply to regular gun sales, to apply to Internet
gun sales. Only federally licensed gun dealers will be able to
post guns on their web site and licensed web site operators will
to register with teh ATF so they can be monitored like any
other gun dealer. The bill requires that all guns sold through the
internet be transfered through a licensed firearms dealer in the
buyers state before the gun could be transfered to the buyer for
a Brady check.
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
ropadop,
Read the threads that preceded this one-first USA Today and then Firearms Owners Unification Project. The points you make do indeed need to be addressed. However, the focus of this ad is on Firearms Owners Unification. If we can awaken even a fourth of the nation's firearms owners we can change the course we are on.
Read the threads that preceded this one-first USA Today and then Firearms Owners Unification Project. The points you make do indeed need to be addressed. However, the focus of this ad is on Firearms Owners Unification. If we can awaken even a fourth of the nation's firearms owners we can change the course we are on.
ropadop, as Spartacus stated this is a continuation of the original thread. All of the points you made in your posts are good ones and many have been posted here during conversation. As you are, I was a bit apprehensive myself at first. I am in full favor now. The ad has been modified somewhat from the original idea, but it still is very strong indeed. And I have to say the words are exactly as they should be. As the old saying goes, "it's time for an attitude adjustment".
This is a beginning, we have to start somewhere.
It will certainly be hard for anyone to ignore our presence.
This is a beginning, we have to start somewhere.
It will certainly be hard for anyone to ignore our presence.
After reading the past threads, I see that many of the issues that I was attempting to raise have been discussed. I think the FOUP idea is a good one, you can count on my support. I think it is particularly significant to have a strong stance coming from a source other than the NRA. (Yes, I am a member.)
Rob, I commend you and all the others who have contributed their time and effort to FOUP.
Rob, I commend you and all the others who have contributed their time and effort to FOUP.
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
The purpose of FOUP,as I see it, is unity among peaceable firearms owners. 80 million of us. That is 29.6% of the entire US population counting children. There are approximately 195 million adults in this country. 40.6% of these are firearms owners.
Approximately 130 million people are registered to vote. If we are all registered to vote then we are 61.4% of all registered voters. But we are not all registered to vote. If we were and we were voting for pro-Bill of Rights candidates, we would not be in this mess.
If we vote as a bloc we would represent an unstoppable political force.
People, we have the power to stop this. We're getting our brains beat out and WE ARE THE MAJORITY.
The Schumers, Lautenbergs, Feinsteins, et al and ad nauseum are in Congress because we sat on our butts and let them win. If we organize, hold voter registration drives for firearms owners and vote for the 2nd Amendment we can change things.
Or we can let the gun organizations continue the efforts that are routinely losing ground.
The choice is ours. The time is now.
Approximately 130 million people are registered to vote. If we are all registered to vote then we are 61.4% of all registered voters. But we are not all registered to vote. If we were and we were voting for pro-Bill of Rights candidates, we would not be in this mess.
If we vote as a bloc we would represent an unstoppable political force.
People, we have the power to stop this. We're getting our brains beat out and WE ARE THE MAJORITY.
The Schumers, Lautenbergs, Feinsteins, et al and ad nauseum are in Congress because we sat on our butts and let them win. If we organize, hold voter registration drives for firearms owners and vote for the 2nd Amendment we can change things.
Or we can let the gun organizations continue the efforts that are routinely losing ground.
The choice is ours. The time is now.
Spartacus, my friend you are right on the fact we are the majority. We must join together and vote the rascals out (stronger word goes where "rascals" is). The problem is not enough of us gun owning voters look at the gun question only. I think that at times that question, how the cantidate looks at firearms ownership, comes after the cantidate's party, his/her stance on taxes, poverty and abortion. If we forgot about the other issues and only voted according to the cantidate's thoughts and actions regarding firearms we would not have the scum sucking, statist, slimeball bas***** we now have in office.
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
It all comes down to whether the candidate/politico sincerely believes in the Constitution in toto and intact without parsing. If they don't then they will continue to pass immoral laws; penalize, turn into criminals and tax the life blood out of law abiding citizens, all for their concept of a utopia.
You either believe and trust the Constitution as it was written or you admit you don't and stop hiding behind your "revised" version. Until the Constitution is amended by the proper process, I consider these legal maneuvers, circumventions and failures to uphold the Constitution as violations of oath of office and treason.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
You either believe and trust the Constitution as it was written or you admit you don't and stop hiding behind your "revised" version. Until the Constitution is amended by the proper process, I consider these legal maneuvers, circumventions and failures to uphold the Constitution as violations of oath of office and treason.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
If we do not begin to vote one issue-the Second Amendment-we will most likely not have the option for voting on other issues. I'm a Libertarian, there are LOTS of reasons for me to refrain from voting for a pro-Second Amendment Republican, Democrat, or what-have-you. I'm voting the Second Amendment ticket right down the line from now until we either obtain victory or defeat. ALL other issues are on the back burner, including the remainder of the Bill of Rights.
With the Second Amendment intact, I am confident that the remainder of my Constitutional rights can be maintained or retrieved. Without the Second Amendment, I have no confidence that the inalienable rights to life and liberty can be maintained much less the remainder of the Bill of Rights.
With the Second Amendment intact, I am confident that the remainder of my Constitutional rights can be maintained or retrieved. Without the Second Amendment, I have no confidence that the inalienable rights to life and liberty can be maintained much less the remainder of the Bill of Rights.
My income level is registered at the level of poverty and I get no outside help from my family. I am a full time student and live on $25 a week for food, gas, entertainment and those little extra expenses like stamps and photocopies. I am going to contribute my $50. I will sell one of my Benchmade folders to pay for it. If I can pay the contribution, then anyone that put's their mind to it can. It is time to put up or shut-up.
Rob: It may take a few weeks, but you will get a check from me as soon as I gather the funds.
thaddeus
Rob: It may take a few weeks, but you will get a check from me as soon as I gather the funds.
thaddeus
Daren Thompson
New member
Rob my check is in the mail. Honest! 
I was in Buck Run Gun Shop in Bardstown KY distributing the forms and one of the guys had already got a form. Is anybody else from TFL from KY?
Later
Daren
Thanks for the info on the smiley face
[This message has been edited by Daren Thompson (edited March 21, 1999).]
I was in Buck Run Gun Shop in Bardstown KY distributing the forms and one of the guys had already got a form. Is anybody else from TFL from KY?Later
Daren
Thanks for the info on the smiley face
[This message has been edited by Daren Thompson (edited March 21, 1999).]
Rob Pincus
New member
Sorry guys, I was unable to get online at all this past few days, but I 'm back in action now (at leat for a day or two 
).
The website is approaching 2750 visits. Lots of pledges of support in the Email and here. I'm going to check this afternoon to see how many checks have actually arrived.
Looking great!
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-Essayons
).The website is approaching 2750 visits. Lots of pledges of support in the Email and here. I'm going to check this afternoon to see how many checks have actually arrived.
Looking great!
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-Essayons
Rob: If every one of those 2750 "hits" resulted in a response and the $50.00 being sent in the FOUP would have $137,500.00 (if my math is correct). With that kinda money the ad(s) could be placed in more than just US TODAY.
I have sent my $50 and have sent out copies of the FOUP information to several clubs that are not on line. With any luck they will include the information in their next news letters.
Keep us posted.
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
I have sent my $50 and have sent out copies of the FOUP information to several clubs that are not on line. With any luck they will include the information in their next news letters.
Keep us posted.
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
Rob Pincus
New member
see new thread...
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