fredvon4 said:
Hard ...I mean very hard ---for any Political destruction of a very popular past time by LAW abiding citizens
Having shooting woven into the social fabric is politically useful so long as the social climate is tolerant. We've seen prior periods in which very popular activities were outlawed because the social atmosphere was intolerant. See drinking and prohibition. Popularity is most useful if the activity is seen as positive and useful.
RickyRick said:
The right is assured by the second amendment, to defend against tyranny. The deadly nature of the gun is why we have the right...
You can’t act like we have even more of a right because of fun and recreational use.
Once our right is qualified by the entertainment value we will loose that right.
Defense of Liberty is the reason, not because guns are fun.
The public thinks people are dying because we don’t want to loose our toys... this philosophy does no one any favors.
The best claim to having a right is because firearms are deadly.
In fact, the 2d Am. doesn't indicate why we have the right to arms.
Noting that shooting is mostly recreational isn't a qualification on the right. The right to free speech is mostly exercised to blather about nonsense like which shoes are most comfortable and how bad the latest film is. Noting that doesn't qualify the right to free speech.
Moreover, the right to arms isn't just
for the defense of liberty; it is a component part of liberty. A parochially insurrectionist utility argument invites abridgement of the individual right.
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Here’s the thing. If I dress up nicely and go door to door asking my neighbors “Have you heard the good news about Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for you?” I am going to get a lot of doors shut in my face, including many people who are Christian. Much work. Little result.
This is an interesting analogy. I had a couple of older Jehovah Witness ladies come to my door once. They politely asked if they could tell me about the good news and invite me to their Kingdom Hall (church). I thanked them for their kindness, but noted that I am C of E and wasn't looking for a change. They never returned. I know some people treat JW door knockers poorly, but these ladies were too nice to be met with anything less than courtesy.
Shooters strike me as largely bad at communicating the value of the activity to people who don't shoot. for several reasons. First, they can be so focused on the argument that they may be personally unappealing. Whether you like Ted Nugent, Wayne LaPierre or Gun Owners of America is very much inside baseball and incidental to why shooting is a positive and enjoyable activity.
Second, they don't seem to give a lot of thought to how to articulate their interest to those not yet interested. In contrast, those JW ladies likely give a lot of thought to how they present themselves to people like me.
Bartholomew Roberts said:
If I invite a bunch of neighbors to the church fish fry and they have a good time and we don’t talk Jesus, they’ll still hear some of that message just by virtue of hanging around a church - and the ones who are receptive to it will self select. And the ones who aren’t receptive to it will at least remember free fish.
In this analogy, we have to recognise a cultural bias against fish and a lot of people who wouldn't know a fish from a cow.
Bartholomew Roberts said:
I think that generally speakng, fellowship sells better than fear; but I may be stupidly optimistic that way.
Generally speaking, I bet you are right. I would also bet that children are more amenable. In many urban and suburban settings, it's difficult to get kids past their mothers and to a range, and their are ever fewer ranges. Where I am, even air rifles are "firearms" for the purpose of codes prohibiting the discharge of firearms within city limits.
Though I take groups shooting, I see it as an inherently individual activity, and working fellowship into it might be a challenge.
Glenn E Meyer said:
I was at a carbine match this weekend with 70 participants. Guess how many people actually own them in the San Antonio area - probably tens of thousands. We had 70 people.
That's a lot of people. I've never attended an Appleseed, though it sounds interesting. I have a practice and a family. If they are like me, carving out big chunks of time for that sort of thing isn't in the cards for many of those tens of thousands of owners.
