Fiocchi Brass any good?
- Thread starter MJFlores
- Start date
m&p45acp10+1
New member
For .38 Special the yseem to load just the same the others. S&B reloads just fine as long as you do not mind removing the primer pocket crimps. yea they even crimp promers in the revolver brass as well. A friend of mine was reloading some in .45 Colt that had crimped primer pockets. I loaned him a reamer to prep the brass.
I can only speak of their .223 brass. The flash hole can be severely off center. The percentage of off center flask holes was way to high for my liking. Can't believe I didn't break a de capping pin. In addition the primer pockets are very tight. Even after using a dillon swagger. Loaded about 1500 rounds and don't think I will be reloading them again
I've found there .223 brass seems to have less case capacity. I have been loading up federal cases before and get a fiochi in the mix every now and then. I can also tell when I charge them as the powder comes up much higher in the case. As a result I've seen pressure signs with them that I've not seen with other brass. With all the brass I have anymore I just toss the few that I come across.
As others have mentioned I've noticed an inconsistency in their flash holes as well.
As others have mentioned I've noticed an inconsistency in their flash holes as well.
Kimber84,
If you don't mind, could post the average weight of those empty and deprimed cases? I've never had any Fiocci .223 brass.
If you have time, it would be interesting to know the case water overflow capacity, too. Water overflow capacity is measured by taking a fired case, measuring and recording its length, plugging the primer pocket with clay or a fired primer (or just starting with a fired case that has not been decapped), weighing that combination, then filling it level to the case mouth with water (no meniscus) and weighing it again, then subtracting the plugged, but empty weight from that last intermediate result. The end result is called case water overflow capacity even though, with no meniscus, the water doesn't actually overflow. With that number and the case length, one can determine how much water will be displaced by seating a bullet to a particular depth, thus to learn how much room for powder there actually is.
Note that if you find the overflow capacity for a case that has not been resized, it will be larger, reflecting the size of your chamber. In that instance it would be nice to have the overflow capacity of a Winchester or LC case or something common to compare.
Thanks.
If you don't mind, could post the average weight of those empty and deprimed cases? I've never had any Fiocci .223 brass.
If you have time, it would be interesting to know the case water overflow capacity, too. Water overflow capacity is measured by taking a fired case, measuring and recording its length, plugging the primer pocket with clay or a fired primer (or just starting with a fired case that has not been decapped), weighing that combination, then filling it level to the case mouth with water (no meniscus) and weighing it again, then subtracting the plugged, but empty weight from that last intermediate result. The end result is called case water overflow capacity even though, with no meniscus, the water doesn't actually overflow. With that number and the case length, one can determine how much water will be displaced by seating a bullet to a particular depth, thus to learn how much room for powder there actually is.
Note that if you find the overflow capacity for a case that has not been resized, it will be larger, reflecting the size of your chamber. In that instance it would be nice to have the overflow capacity of a Winchester or LC case or something common to compare.
Thanks.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
Unclenick I can say that I remember the GFL brass being noticably heavier than any of the other brass that I have. I do not have one on hand at this moment. If memory serves me correctly they were about 5 to 10 grains heavier than LCC brass. That is empty weight.
That's possible. Most .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO brass runs between about 92 and 96 grains both from what I've seen myself and what's been reported here and elsewhere. The list about 1/4 of the way down this page tends to confirm that, but it also includes a 104 grain PMP (South African) case and an old Lapua case that was nearly as heavy. So the Fiocci isn't alone.
Marco Califo
New member
I have reloaded Fiocchi 223, that I bought as loaded ammo, along with all my other "generic" or "any case" (LC range pickup, Hornady, RORG, WW) 223 brass reloads, mostly 55 gr. and >1 gr less than max. They worked fine and I noticed nothing unusual, but did not bother to weigh them. At $20 for 50 rounds on sale, sometimes with varmint bullets, I like them.
For more serious stuff, like 75 gr long range, I stick to known batches of LC that I track in separate groups.
As a brand, I like Fiocchi, both new loaded ammo and reloading the empties (rifle, handgun and 12 gauge. I rate them ahead of Federal, which I cull out of my 223.
For more serious stuff, like 75 gr long range, I stick to known batches of LC that I track in separate groups.
As a brand, I like Fiocchi, both new loaded ammo and reloading the empties (rifle, handgun and 12 gauge. I rate them ahead of Federal, which I cull out of my 223.
I'll see if I can dig them out and weigh a few.
Rifleman1776
New member
Not exactly on point with your "brass" question but still a point of view.
A relative of mine was so impressed with the high quality and low price of Fiocchi ammo that he became a dealer/distributor for their products. He is a long time shooter and can afford anything he wants. But I goes for the Fiocchi every time. FWIW
A relative of mine was so impressed with the high quality and low price of Fiocchi ammo that he became a dealer/distributor for their products. He is a long time shooter and can afford anything he wants. But I goes for the Fiocchi every time. FWIW
Good to know. Yeah, I'm kind of impressed with the quality of their pistol brass which led me to make this post. As a re-loader, and someone who is starting to gear up to reload my pistol rounds I like to buy ammo only if it gives me good brass for reloading afterwards. After punching out some primers on mixed brass, the Fiocchi looked better than Winchester, Federal, and Speer!
Question, has anyone seen Fiocchi's .45 ACP brass? I wonder if it has small primers or larger? I'm trying to only collect the large primer stuff.
Question, has anyone seen Fiocchi's .45 ACP brass? I wonder if it has small primers or larger? I'm trying to only collect the large primer stuff.
Gentelmen,
I have a number of GFL and Fioochi stamped .223 cases available to weigh. I would be happy to weight them and post the results. I broke my collar bone this weekend and have nothing better to do. Doc's restrictions.....
Fioochi = 100.3, 100.3, 99.7, 100.2, 100.1 = 100.12 gr average
WCC = 94.8, 94.4, 94.4, 94.3, 95.0 = 94.58 gr average
LC = 91.9, 91.5, 92.3, 92.5, 92.5 = 92.15 gr average
NOTE: all cases were sized and de-primed
Uncle Nick,
Is it acceptable to use a slight touch of soap to remove the Meniscus (water retention) when weighing the water filled cases? How many examples would you like?
As far as the quality of Factory Loaded Fioochi .223 ammo I would rate it excellent. 50 & 55 gr V-max bullets. Better than average when it came to accuracy and clean burning. Fired more than 1K rounds at then range and varmint shooting. My only complaint came when I went to reload them. Off center flash holes and very tight primer pockets.
I have a number of GFL and Fioochi stamped .223 cases available to weigh. I would be happy to weight them and post the results. I broke my collar bone this weekend and have nothing better to do. Doc's restrictions.....
Fioochi = 100.3, 100.3, 99.7, 100.2, 100.1 = 100.12 gr average
WCC = 94.8, 94.4, 94.4, 94.3, 95.0 = 94.58 gr average
LC = 91.9, 91.5, 92.3, 92.5, 92.5 = 92.15 gr average
NOTE: all cases were sized and de-primed
Uncle Nick,
Is it acceptable to use a slight touch of soap to remove the Meniscus (water retention) when weighing the water filled cases? How many examples would you like?
As far as the quality of Factory Loaded Fioochi .223 ammo I would rate it excellent. 50 & 55 gr V-max bullets. Better than average when it came to accuracy and clean burning. Fired more than 1K rounds at then range and varmint shooting. My only complaint came when I went to reload them. Off center flash holes and very tight primer pockets.
Marco Califo
New member
Fiocchi has factories in the U.S. and also in Italy, and uses some other component suppliers as well. I recall seeing a disclaimer at one time about current market conditions sometimes requiring either components or complete ammunition being imported from Italy for the U.S. market. I looked at their website just now and only saw reference to primed shotshells being imported before I got tired of looking. I do not know if the country of source of any components means a thing. I suspect that it does not.
http://www.fiocchiusa.com/foa/CMS/mainpage.aspx
http://www.fiocchiusa.com/foa/CMS/mainpage.aspx
mjes92,
Sorry to hear about the collar bone. Hope that heals well.
Thanks for the weights. Where outside dimensions are identical, you get about 0.117 times as much water weight difference as there is brass weight difference inside cases for 70:30 copper:zinc cartridge brass. However, because manufacturers actually use anything from 62:38 to 80:20 brass and they have tolerances in rim sizes, head diameter, and in extractor groove leading edge angle, the multiplier can be off, so you just have to measure them.
Regarding the meniscus, what I normally do is bring the meniscus positive, then twist the corner of a tissue into a tiny rat tail and us the tip to soak out the excess water until the surface looks flat and level with the case mouth. If you try the wetting agent, let me know how it does. If you don't, I probably will try it because you've got my curiosity up.
Based on my wife's Dawn detergent, it has a density of 1.06. You would have to come up to about 10% detergent by weight in water before you created volume calculation error large enough to have the effect on pressure that about 0.1 grains of powder error does in the .223. Chances are you will only need a drop or two per cup of water, and a drop in a cup of water is only about 0.02%. There's no way you'll use enough to affect the weight result significantly.
To calculate volume from water weight, I usually use 0.9975 gm/cc as the density of room temperature water (at 73-74°F in my house) that's been boiled (to out-gas it) and cooled. There's a good water density v. temperature calculator online, here.
Sorry to hear about the collar bone. Hope that heals well.
Thanks for the weights. Where outside dimensions are identical, you get about 0.117 times as much water weight difference as there is brass weight difference inside cases for 70:30 copper:zinc cartridge brass. However, because manufacturers actually use anything from 62:38 to 80:20 brass and they have tolerances in rim sizes, head diameter, and in extractor groove leading edge angle, the multiplier can be off, so you just have to measure them.
Regarding the meniscus, what I normally do is bring the meniscus positive, then twist the corner of a tissue into a tiny rat tail and us the tip to soak out the excess water until the surface looks flat and level with the case mouth. If you try the wetting agent, let me know how it does. If you don't, I probably will try it because you've got my curiosity up.
Based on my wife's Dawn detergent, it has a density of 1.06. You would have to come up to about 10% detergent by weight in water before you created volume calculation error large enough to have the effect on pressure that about 0.1 grains of powder error does in the .223. Chances are you will only need a drop or two per cup of water, and a drop in a cup of water is only about 0.02%. There's no way you'll use enough to affect the weight result significantly.
To calculate volume from water weight, I usually use 0.9975 gm/cc as the density of room temperature water (at 73-74°F in my house) that's been boiled (to out-gas it) and cooled. There's a good water density v. temperature calculator online, here.
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Here's something else to think about when weighing brass and comparing to other similar cases. Fiocchi seems a lot more yellow in color, indicating there could be a higher brass content compared to other brass cases from say Fed, Winchester, Remington, etc. I wonder if this is partly responsible for the weight differences posted?
Brass is just any mix of copper and zinc, so it's not of matter of more or less brass, but of more or less zinc as a portion of the alloy. Gilding metal on bullets, for example, is 95:5 brass, but it looks like copper because the zinc content is so low. Once you get to 80:20 its yellow. So is 62:38 brass (aka Muntz metal). But as to which looks most yellow, I don't know off the top of my head. I can tell you that oxidation has an affect on how yellow it looks, too.
For some information on who uses what alloy, this article is interesting.
For some information on who uses what alloy, this article is interesting.
Gentelmen,
I have a number of GFL and Fioochi stamped .223 cases available to weigh. I would be happy to weight them and post the results. I broke my collar bone this weekend and have nothing better to do. Doc's restrictions.....
Fioochi = 100.3, 100.3, 99.7, 100.2, 100.1 = 100.12 gr average
WCC = 94.8, 94.4, 94.4, 94.3, 95.0 = 94.58 gr average
LC = 91.9, 91.5, 92.3, 92.5, 92.5 = 92.15 gr average
NOTE: all cases were sized and de-primed
Uncle Nick,
Is it acceptable to use a slight touch of soap to remove the Meniscus (water retention) when weighing the water filled cases? How many examples would you like?
As far as the quality of Factory Loaded Fioochi .223 ammo I would rate it excellent. 50 & 55 gr V-max bullets. Better than average when it came to accuracy and clean burning. Fired more than 1K rounds at then range and varmint shooting. My only complaint came when I went to reload them. Off center flash holes and very tight primer pockets.
You beat me to it. I just weighed a few and had almost identical results. As compared to LC and FC this validates what I've seen when loading them.
I don't have a ton so I usually just toss them as its not worth throwing them in the mix, at least to me personally.