You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Finishing an 80% lower at a "build party" now illegal in California?
- Thread starter speedrrracer
- Start date
See Wickard v. Filburn, which is still law of the land. Roscoe Filburn had a bunch of wheat that he was never going to sell or trade - just consume on his farm. And according to SCOTUS, the commerce clause extended to the feebs the right to regulate/tax the wheat and/or prohibit him from growing it. There are precious few transactions which a jurist with a generous view of the commerce clause cannot squeeze into the tent.I don't know what BATFE has decreed. I am sure they haven't limited themselves from regulating it because they want to be nice. They haven't regulated it because the can't stretch the commerce clause to a gun that is never going to be bought, sold, or traded. That is it. They have restricted as far as they think they can without pushing it to where they have to worry about a court case that takes away some of their power.
speedrrracer
New member
Latest updates still do not have a complete picture. Here's the quote so I don't screw it up:
So there is no clarity on:
What if the fixtures are not already in place? IOW, what if the machine is pre-programmed but I put the fixtures in their places?
or
What if the fixtures are in place but I provide my own code? If I bring my code from home, do I have to upload it, or can that be a service provided by the shop?
More confusion and chaos, courtesy of the idiots at the F-troop.
We were advised by Jason that the ATF now considers providing someone a pre-programmed CNC machine with fixtures in place as "manufacturing". It doesn't matter if you have an FFL 07. With an FFL 07, it seems that a person could still rent the CNC and push the button, but the lower would have to be manufactured under the name of the company who holds the FFL. It would need to be properly serialized and go through the normal background check, paperwork, and 10 day wait period associated with purchasing a firearm in CA. This is what we were expressly told by our lawyer because we specifically asked if an FFL 07 would be a possible solution to this problem.
So there is no clarity on:
What if the fixtures are not already in place? IOW, what if the machine is pre-programmed but I put the fixtures in their places?
or
What if the fixtures are in place but I provide my own code? If I bring my code from home, do I have to upload it, or can that be a service provided by the shop?
More confusion and chaos, courtesy of the idiots at the F-troop.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I'm probably in a minority, but I don't see that the BATFE has in any way created any confusion or chaos on this. What I see is that some small groups of people have tried to sneak around the requirement of doing at least 20 percent of the work themselves in order for a so-called "80 percent" receiver to be considered home made. Awhile back I was negotiating with the owner of a small, independent machine shop to rent time on his Bridgeport (not a CNC) to do an 80 percent receiver. Sadly, his health forced him to close the shop and retire before I ever got to bring my project to fruition, but the core of our discussions was that we both wanted to follow the law, which meant that **I** had to do the work. I was going to pay him to stand there and coach me through the steps, but neither of us wanted to become a felon at our age (we're both Vietnam veterans and senior citizens).speedrrracer said:More confusion and chaos, courtesy of the idiots at the F-troop.
The problem with trying to translate this to a CNC machine is that there isn't any definition of "work" relating to a CNC. Just mounting a fixture to a machine that has already been programmed for the job? I can't see how that's worth more than a couple of percent. Uploading the code? Ditto.
Maybe actually writing the code could count for a chunk of the percentage. I don't know -- I've never worked with a CNC machine and I have no idea how time-intensive it is to write the code. But I don't think the participants in these parties are interested in writing the code for themselves. I think they are just looking to do an end run around the 20 percent parameter. Letting someone else's CNC machine, running someone else's code, finish your 80 percent receiver to me isn't any different from if I were to hand a receiver to my now-retired acquaintance and tell him to go ahead and finish the piece ... but let me push the button when he's ready to turn on the machine. I just don't think that's what the BATFE had in mind in allowing 80 percent receivers to be completed by the owner.