Finger shortener.
- Thread starter Brit
- Start date
Yup. You can do a "chamber check" on any autopistol, but only some allow a "press check".
The difference is in where your fingers are relative to the muzzle during the operation, and given that's the entire point of the thread, that difference is both completely relevant and more than just semantics.
The difference is in where your fingers are relative to the muzzle during the operation, and given that's the entire point of the thread, that difference is both completely relevant and more than just semantics.
I can see that, but then the very first post itself is incorrect in its phrasing. It bemoans the addition of front slide serrations as their presence, seemingly according to Brit, is to encourage people to do a “press check”, his wording. If the argument is that a press check is a very specific way to perform a chamber check, then front slide serrations have nothing to do with “press checks” (as others pointed out). Even the “press check” as it is described in the first post doesn’t seem to match the description of pressing from the front of the slide, but of pulling the slide rearward. So then the question becomes which is more important for the discussion, the term that the OP uses or the manner in which he describes the action? I can accept that both matter, in which case we all should have corrected the phrasing months ago.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Here is my dilemma...
My full size EDC L9-A1's have two tactile LCI's.
And three visual LCI's including a brass window.
My CCW 380EZ's have one tactile LCI.
And two visual LCI's including a brass window.
My question...
Can I still "press check" in front of my friends so I too can feel cool?
My full size EDC L9-A1's have two tactile LCI's.
And three visual LCI's including a brass window.
My CCW 380EZ's have one tactile LCI.
And two visual LCI's including a brass window.
My question...
Can I still "press check" in front of my friends so I too can feel cool?
Here is my dilemma...
My full size EDC L9-A1's have two tactile LCI's.
And three visual LCI's including a brass window.
My CCW 380EZ's have one tactile LCI.
And two visual LCI's including a brass window.
My question...
Can I still "press check" in front of my friends so I too can feel cool?
You can do whatever you want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Which is why I posted on a thread that had been inactive for a few months. I missed it when it was started, and after reading through it now, just couldn't let some of the errors stand uncorrected.
I think we're pretty much on the same page now, about what a press check is, the risks, and how front slide serrations have nothing to do with a press check. Hopefully anyone coming along later and reading the thread will leave knowing the correct information.
Sitting in front of my Lap Top, in my ratty old wool mix dressing gown, G19 on the bedside table behind me. Nothing to check, it is always fully loaded.
16 of 147g Federal HST. And a spare G17 mag also fully loaded near it. Till dressed.
But when visiting the Grandkids, 8 and 9 YOA, wild Harrys! I clear the breech prior to entering the playpen! Just in case.
What a lovely feeling, being able to holster a pistol, and drive away from home!
Another Just in case situation.
16 of 147g Federal HST. And a spare G17 mag also fully loaded near it. Till dressed.
But when visiting the Grandkids, 8 and 9 YOA, wild Harrys! I clear the breech prior to entering the playpen! Just in case.
What a lovely feeling, being able to holster a pistol, and drive away from home!
Another Just in case situation.
You are absolutely right, and it doesn't take long to notice this if you spend any amount of time dealing with shooters. Go to youtube and see comments that berate disassembly videos for not checking the chamber while on screen. It's the shooter's version of "virtue signaling" and means about the same thing as virtue signaling on a university campus -- it's a cheap beg for attention/relevancy, originating from the bottom of the barrel. That's why you notice a certain pattern in the people who tend to do it.
I wonder how many people have inadvertently "Killed a camera?"
The past indiscrete action of a federal officer. Demonstrating something to the class of young students? And shot himself in the leg?
And then continued to try to explain, whatever he was explaining in the first place?
Those children wanted out!
The past indiscrete action of a federal officer. Demonstrating something to the class of young students? And shot himself in the leg?
And then continued to try to explain, whatever he was explaining in the first place?
Those children wanted out!
Checking the status of the chamber by retracting the slide a bit has been around for as long and pistols with slides have been. There are and have been a number of methods for doing that. All of them fell under the term "press check" a good number of decades past. It does not mean that a actual press needs to be a part of the action, especially when it's more of a pull. Press check does not mean, nor is limited to one method alone.
There is no variation of it that encourages a shooter to put their digit in front of the muzzle at the same time they put a finger on the trigger. .
It's interesting to note that the shooter who came up with the 4 basic rules of handgun safety also advocated and taught the press check as a regular part of firearms safety.
I learned to press check from GIs back from Korea and Vietnam. My uncle who was in the Navy during WWII, also showed me that.
Someone said:
You may not recall that a good many experienced shooters have had unintended discharges. Bill Jordan had a well known instance in a So. California station. He did so while showing a third officer a technique with his gun and talking away. He took his loaded weapon from his desk drawer, emptied it, did the technique, reloaded it and put it back in the drawer. A bit later he went for another demonstration. The gun was loaded and he put a bullet through the wall killing a fellow officer on the other side. Because he was deep in discussion he forgot to check the status of his weapon. A good man died.
So checking the status of one's weapon is a very good habit to develop and maintain. So I was taught in the 1970s and so the men who trained me were taught going back in a long line.
tipoc
There is no variation of it that encourages a shooter to put their digit in front of the muzzle at the same time they put a finger on the trigger. .
It's interesting to note that the shooter who came up with the 4 basic rules of handgun safety also advocated and taught the press check as a regular part of firearms safety.
I learned to press check from GIs back from Korea and Vietnam. My uncle who was in the Navy during WWII, also showed me that.
Someone said:
You may not recall that a good many experienced shooters have had unintended discharges. Bill Jordan had a well known instance in a So. California station. He did so while showing a third officer a technique with his gun and talking away. He took his loaded weapon from his desk drawer, emptied it, did the technique, reloaded it and put it back in the drawer. A bit later he went for another demonstration. The gun was loaded and he put a bullet through the wall killing a fellow officer on the other side. Because he was deep in discussion he forgot to check the status of his weapon. A good man died.
So checking the status of one's weapon is a very good habit to develop and maintain. So I was taught in the 1970s and so the men who trained me were taught going back in a long line.
tipoc
One press-check method places one or more fingers on the muzzle of the slide (not directly over the muzzle--that wouldn't work) and with the thumb in the triggerguard, though not on the trigger.
Of course, for the slide to be retracted, the thumb safety of a 1911 must be off, and it's common to see the press check done with the strong hand holding the gun in a firing grip and probably depressing the grip safety.
Not exactly ideal from a safety standpoint for more than one reason, none of which should really need to be explained.
Press checks (or similar manipulations) are not recommended as a way to clear a firearm.
To clear a semi-auto pistol, drop the mag, lock back the slide, then visually and preferably also manually check the chamber.
As long as it is being done with purpose and done safely, it doesn't hurt to check the status of one's weapons. Needless manipulation of a loaded firearm that is "on duty" is asking for trouble--that's what I mean when I say it needs to be done "with purpose" as opposed to being done for show or as some kind of an OCD "twitch".
For example, press-checking at the range is pretty pointless. You just loaded the gun, you don't really need to partially open the slide to refresh your memory about what happened a second ago. If you really wonder if a round fed, load the chamber from a another mag for your first round and check it to see if it's down a round before you put the full one in.
As far as checking to verify a gun is empty, that should be done any time an "off duty" gun is handled--and should be done with a more thorough and foolproof technique than press-checking.
I meant to mention that Jordan's error was with a revolver. The specific error was in not checking the status of his gun when he went to show it the second time.
Press checks, also called pinch checks and status checks, are not meant for unloading a gun, or as a step in field stripping. They are intended for checking the status of the gun.
The method for press checking that is mentioned earlier (as not being all that good) is also one of the oldest, likely the second oldest, maybe. It has the shooter holding the gun in the strong hand. Hammer cocked. The thumb of the off hand is placed in the trigger guard while the index finger of the same hand is placed over the recoil plug just below the muzzle. The hand is squeezed and the slide retracts enough to see and touch the round in the chamber. This can be done one handed.
The above method fell out of favor once more pistols with full length guide rods appeared the U.S. in the post war period. The FLGR became popular in the 1911 about 20-25 or so years ago.
In Chuck Taylor's book Combat Handgunnery 4th edition (1997) he provides pics of the above method and one alternate method, pg. 97.
I figure the original method was to just retract the slide a bit, using both hands.
tipoc
Press checks, also called pinch checks and status checks, are not meant for unloading a gun, or as a step in field stripping. They are intended for checking the status of the gun.
The method for press checking that is mentioned earlier (as not being all that good) is also one of the oldest, likely the second oldest, maybe. It has the shooter holding the gun in the strong hand. Hammer cocked. The thumb of the off hand is placed in the trigger guard while the index finger of the same hand is placed over the recoil plug just below the muzzle. The hand is squeezed and the slide retracts enough to see and touch the round in the chamber. This can be done one handed.
The above method fell out of favor once more pistols with full length guide rods appeared the U.S. in the post war period. The FLGR became popular in the 1911 about 20-25 or so years ago.
In Chuck Taylor's book Combat Handgunnery 4th edition (1997) he provides pics of the above method and one alternate method, pg. 97.
I figure the original method was to just retract the slide a bit, using both hands.
tipoc
It won't work with FLGR guns so it makes sense that it would be less commonly used as FLGR guns became more prevalent. Also, it has been deprecated by some trainers because of the safety problems it presents.
There are certainly much safer methods for performing press checks. For example:
There's no need to have a digit in the trigger guard.
There's no need to hold the gun so that the grip safety is depressed.
There's no need to put a finger on the muzzle of the gun.
Checking the status of a gun can be done safely, but even then, it shouldn't be done more than is necessary for a couple of reasons.
1. Unholstering a loaded gun and handling it always presents the possibility of an unintentional discharge, however small.
2. Pulling the slide of a semi-auto out of battery and then closing it again is not how the gun is designed to operate. It's designed to operate by having the slide close from the fully (or nearly fully) retracted position. This helps insure that there is sufficient slide energy to chamber the round and put the gun fully into battery. Opening the cylinder on a revolver is obviously much less of an issue.
My recommendation is that gun owners who feel that it is necessary to frequently verify that their carry gun is loaded should purchase a firearm equipped with a prominent loaded chamber indicator--ideally one that can be checked with the firearm holstered.
I have pistols with LCIs built into the extractors. I still prefer to do a chamber check. I don’t know that I’d say I feel the need to check it frequently though. You bring up fair points. I am very conscious that handling a loaded firearm entails its own risk. The point about the slide being left out of battery is a good one. I tend to give the rear of the slide a firm tap with my off hand to ensure that the slide does go back into battery. While not a guarantee of returning to battery, of the pistols I own I have yet to have one that wouldn’t go into battery this way if the cartridge in question was usable and not deformed. YMMV.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
That's the kind of thing I'm addressing when I say that press checks should be done "with purpose" to minimize unnecessary manipulation of a loaded handgun.
I believe that there are situations where it is reasonable to partially open the action of a self-defense firearm to insure that the chamber is loaded; but in my opinion, that kind of check is carried out far more often than is really necessary.
There are going to be different opinions, obviously, but relying on something as complicated as a firearm for self-defense while being concerned about the reliable function of something as simple as an LCI is problematically inconsistent from a logical standpoint, in my opinion.
That said, if seeing a glimpse of brass in the chamber is important to a person, there are guns that are built with this feature. I would suggest that if one is truly worried about the reliability of an LCI, the guns built so that the brass of a loaded cartridge is visible when the gun is ready to fire, would be a better option than manipulating the gun out of a concern that an LCI isn't operating properly. It's also true that many guns can be modified to have this feature, even if they don't come from the factory in that form.
Also, since many LCIs are based on the extractor, if the extractor isn't working, that fact presents a pressing concern for a person who wouldn't choose to go into a self-defense encounter with a single-shot firearm. A better solution would be to carefully check the LCI mechanism each time the gun is maintained and then trust it to operate properly--as one checks the rest of the firearm during maintenance and then trusts it to operate properly.
That said, if seeing a glimpse of brass in the chamber is important to a person, there are guns that are built with this feature. I would suggest that if one is truly worried about the reliability of an LCI, the guns built so that the brass of a loaded cartridge is visible when the gun is ready to fire, would be a better option than manipulating the gun out of a concern that an LCI isn't operating properly. It's also true that many guns can be modified to have this feature, even if they don't come from the factory in that form.
Also, since many LCIs are based on the extractor, if the extractor isn't working, that fact presents a pressing concern for a person who wouldn't choose to go into a self-defense encounter with a single-shot firearm. A better solution would be to carefully check the LCI mechanism each time the gun is maintained and then trust it to operate properly--as one checks the rest of the firearm during maintenance and then trusts it to operate properly.