Figured Out Where the Explosives Went

B

bountyh

Moderator
Going to be kind of tough to blame this one on Saddam or Bill Clinton.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/04/iraq.weapons.ap/index.html

Report: U.S. troops watched weapons-site looting

Thursday, November 4, 2004 Posted: 9:05 AM EST (1405 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Explosives were looted from the Al-Qaqaa ammunitions site in Iraq while outnumbered U.S. soldiers assigned to guard the materials watched helplessly, soldiers told the Los Angeles Times.

U.S. Army reservists and National Guardsmen witnessed the looting and some soldiers sent messages to commanders in Baghdad requesting help, but received no reply, they said.

"It was complete chaos. It was looting like L.A. during the Rodney King riots," one officer said.
 
Unidentified source. Yet another knee jerk reaction by the media. I still want to hear the truth from a valid source.
dean
 
Hey bounty...

I'm gonna say this for a lot of other folk here and in the nicest way that I know how...
'give it a rest, will ya. In case you didn't get the memo, your boy lost, your party is in shambles and your political perspective has been repudiated. There's nothing left for you to defend and no more reason for your outrageous, unsubstantiated attacks. It's over, finished, kaput, expired, time's up, etc. and no amount of continued pissing and moaning is gonna change that'.


We now return to our celebration, already in progress.
 
Hey, burner:

I'm gonna say this for a lot of other folk here and in the nicest way that I know how...
'give it a rest, will ya. In case you didn't get the memo, your boy lost,
Click to expand...

I only have two hours so I can't list everything wrong in what you just posted, but here's a highlight:

Kerry was never "my boy". I said he was a loser for ten months and I even accurately predicted the results of the election (it's posted on the SW forum if you want to see it). I also said I could come up with better candidates than the dems by dragging a chicken leg past homeless people.

But, you just don't get it: not every body who thinks the curent admin is screwing up is a Kerry lover, or a terror lover, or a liberal, or a knee jerk...actually, they are patriots who are not so blinded by a monothemic focus on one issue (gun control) that they can't see how Bush, ashcroft, et al have shredded the constitution. Nor, do we ignore the train wreck tht is Iraq and what it will lead to.

Just a helpful suggestion: don't misquote me, it's the internet equivalent of sticking your arm in a wood chipper. And stop posting lies about me which are so easily refuted. I have never supported Kerry, I only attacked lies posted about him (like the Swiftvets) because I just hate liars in general.. wherever I find them. And I find a ton of them at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

And to re-state the obvious: I notice your reply to the article from CNN was:

A personal attack on me, complete with lies.

Color me stunned.

Now let me hear you refute the charges that article levels (from both Army Reservists and national Guard):

1) They asked for help to prevent the looting and were ignored.

2) clearly this was known when it happened, since their request was refused.

Which leads to a logical certainty:

3) Last week's dog and pony show with the fresh faced soldier saying he "hauled the explosives away" was a pre election pack of lies to defuse a damaging issue. The pentagon line of BS about how they aren't sure what happened was a steaming pile of it.

Nice doing business with you. Please come back when you have something to say which is on topic and not a lie.



There's nothing left for you to defend and no more reason for your outrageous, unsubstantiated attacks.
Click to expand...
Incredible. A ver batim text reprint of a CNN article gets posted, and somehow in your world that is an "outrageous unsubstantiated attack" by me. Kind of tells you where your compass is aligned on free speech and the right to post the truth.
 
Ask and ye shall receive

Unidentified source. Yet another knee jerk reaction by the media.
Click to expand...

Apparrently one of us did not bother to read the article.

U.S. Army reservists and National Guardsmen witnessed the looting and some soldiers sent messages to commanders in Baghdad requesting help, but received no reply, they said.

"It was complete chaos. It was looting like L.A. during the Rodney King riots," one officer said.

The eyewitness accounts reported by the Times are the first provided by U.S. soldiers

And for those who are allergic to the SEARCH button, here's more:

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/190013-7975-010.html

Iraqis tell of looting at site of explosives
Weapons depot from which explosives are missing was stripped after U.S. troops left.


By James Glanz and Jim Dwyer
The New York Times
October 28, 2004


BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Looters stormed the weapons site at Al-Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.

The Iraqis described an orgy of theft so extensive that enterprising residents rented their trucks to looters. But some looting was clearly indiscriminate, with people grabbing anything they could find and later heaving unwanted items off the trucks.



http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/i...&en=b50b42da5ffd60de&ei=5094&partner=homepage

MISSING EXPLOSIVES
4 Iraqis Tell of Looting at Munitions Site in '03
By JAMES GLANZ and JIM DWYER


AGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 27 - Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.

The Iraqis described an orgy of theft so extensive that enterprising residents rented their trucks to looters.



Is that "IDENTIFIED" enough for everybody?
 
But I thought Halliburton stole the explosives in order to complete thier quest of world domination?

Sorry Bountyhunter, I don't really trust the media so much anymore. Why would a military commander allow looting of explosives that could easily be used to kill US troops? Why would they allow that? To make Bush look bad? (I was being sarcastic; the vast majority of the military supports Bush) Or maybe because they don't have enough troops right? (BTW a few airstrikes with some sweet secondary explosions would do the trick, no need to guard it) Oh yeah, have you heard the press conference with the Army major who was over there? He pretty much shoots down all of this crap. So BH your post and the NY times article doesn't pass the test of common sense. Nice try, will be looking forward to your next hilarious post.
 
Code: 
I have never supported Kerry, I only attacked lies posted about him

Maybe I never got to the fine print in any of your posts where you defended Bush for being unfairly attacked. Maybe you didn't support Kerry, but for all the occasional one-liners I see you have written about Kerry, it should not surprise you one little bit that folks think you are solidly in the Kerry Kamp.

and you have nobody to blame for that but your own fingers.

Seems like at least 51% of the people would rather put up with a President who states his case, even if they think the man is wrong, than a weathervane who won't stand still in a slight breeze
 
bounty,

How can the source of the story be identified if that source has asked to remain unidentified ? And, the New York Times? Puh-leeez. They have morphed into the propaganda arm of the DNC. CNN and the LA Times are about as trustworthy.
 
BH,

"I have never supported Kerry, I only attacked lies posted about him (like the Swiftvets) because I just hate liars in general"
Click to expand...

That's a tuff one pardner. Kerry has YET TO RELEASE the last 100 pages of his military record. IF he had done so, he would have had to reveal that he DID NOT RECIEVE his Honorable Discharge until 1978, after President Carter pardoned all Draft dodgers and 'those who received LESS than honorable discharges'.

Kerry applied for and was granted an HONORABLE DISCHARGE after his record was reviewed by a military panel in 1978. And that COMES DIRECTLY from the Kerry website.

The Navy does NOT review a persons record to recommend an Honorable Discharge IF said person ALREADY HAD an honorable discharge. Kerry left the service of the NAVY under less than honorable discharge conditions.

SO, does that mean you HATE KERRY because HE LIED ABOUT HIS MILITARY RECORD? AT least the part about how he got out of VI ET NAM? Just curious.


"Silly rabbit, TRICKS are for kids" - spoken similtaneously by O-Ren Ishii and Beatrice Kiddo
 
Is that "IDENTIFIED" enough for everybody?
Click to expand...
Here's an idea: Try looking up "identified".

While you're at it, look up words like "accurate", "authentic", "forged", you know, simple stuff like that. Then try to figure out the real meaning of charges like "AWOL" instead of bandying about accusations of which you know nothing.

Work on finding sources that don't employ plagiarizing, fabricating, cocaine addicted liars like Jayson Blair.

Hint: The New York Times, and things like the Clinton News Network (you know the one that was formerly owned by that ***monkey Ted Turner) are not credible sources.

Then come back and impress me with your pariotic need to expose "liars".

Feh! :barf:

In case you haven't guessed, or figured it out already, the days of simply laying a charge with only phony unamed nobodys as non-existent witnesses to nothing and having it stick are over. As someone said earlier your modus operandi is threadbare, but I would put it more in a "Emperor Has No Clothes" league myself.
I only attacked lies posted about him (like the Swiftvets) because I just hate liars in general
Click to expand...
200+ men with nothing to gain but the honor that was stolen from them by simpletons, vs. John "Victor Charlie" Kerry, half a dozen paid members of his campaign, and a Green Beret who swears he saw the whole thing from the bottom of a river that HE says he swam to the bottom of.

Yeah, right. (I'd put a rolling eyes smilie here, but I'm laughing too damn hard)
 
Bounty...

I have neither lied about you nor attacked you personally. I have accurately and fairly characterized your position based on your own posts. I will continue to do so. This is not lying.

I have questioned the accuracy, sources of documentation and motivation that seems to result in continued outrageous outbursts on your part. I will continue to do so. This is not a personal attack.

The race is over and we are all weary of the anti-Bush lies, distortions and misinformation that has been spewed on an almost daily basis for the past two years. I attempted to illustrate this point with a modicum of humor and patience. You seem to be a humorless and impatient person.

Regarding the 'wood chipper' comment...was this some of the same simian chest thumping, keyboard clacking, spittle on the screen, rhetorical excess on your part or are you personally threatening me...again?

Give it a rest.
 
BH, me thinks you would be better suited over at DU. Seems at least there, you will have fellow paint sniffers/tinfoil hat wearing folks to swap spit with.
 
I have neither lied about you nor attacked you personally. I have accurately and fairly characterized your position based on your own posts. I will continue to do so. This is not lying.
Click to expand...

Gburner, no you didn't - you're frankly brain-function-challenged, to put it mildly. You said Kerry was bounty's boy, and nothing could be further from the truth, as he so amply demonstrated. You have blinders on. You sharply, unfairly, and illogically criticize anything that is anti-republican. And it makes no sense. Bountyh is 100% RIGHT, and the current admin should be fully accountable for this MASSIVE blunder. YOU and FRED, OTOH, are 100% wrong, because you do nothing but throw out red herrings and straw men. Franky, it's people like YOU who give conservatives/republicans a bad name. Go ahead and celebrate the victory - I am too. But don't attack an arguer - attack an argument, lest you be attacked personally as I am now. The fact is, bounty's point is dead on, and your response is NO actual response to the facts at hand. You and Fred need to give your ostrich-head-in-the-sand rants a rest, especially YOU!

So gburner, step up to the character plate (if you have any), and admit right now that you mischaracterized, with NO evidence, bounty's position as being pro-Kerry, when it was in fact nothing more or less than stating that THIS administration SCREWED UP by allowing explosives to be stolen that will end up killing more of our troops. Admit right now that you clearly, wrongly mischaracterized his statements; else you have no integrity, sir. You are the KING of making assumptions, and guess what that makes you?
 
The soldiers said they could not confirm that looters took the particularly powerful explosives known as HMX and RDX. One soldier, however, said U.S. forces saw looters load trucks with bags marked "hexamine," which is a key ingredient for HMX.



Looted Al QaQaa 'explosives' are in fact urinary antiseptic
11/4/2004 Gerard S Harbison

The Los Angeles Times this morning ran an article on the alleged looting of the Al QaQaa explosives. Pivotal to the article, whcih relied on unidentified GI alleged witnesses to the looting, was this:

One soldier said U.S. forces watched the looters' trucks loaded with bags marked "hexamine" — a key ingredient for HMX — being driven away from the facility. Unsure what hexamine was, the troops later did an Internet search and learned of its explosive power.

"We found out this was stuff you don't smoke around," the soldier said.

The trouble is, it's completely bogus. Hexamine isn't an explosive, and has no 'explosive power'. It's a urinary antiseptic. It is used in the synthesis of RDX and HMX - but without a chemical plant and a number of other chemical ingredients, some dangerous and hard to obtain, you can't make RDX or HMX from it. All the explosive properties of RDX and HMX come from the fuming nitric acid which is another ingredient in the manufacture. I doubt you could even get hexamine to burn decently, let alone explode. I wouldn't be at all surprised that Saddam was manufacturing RDX and HMX, and that's why he had sacks of hexamine, but no terrorist is going to be able to do anything with hexamine (except, maybe, treat his gonorrhea).


I'm befuddled how the LA Times could have used a second-hand google search as a source for the most element on the story. I contacted them, and their 'reader representative' gave me an implausible story of how they'd checked their chemical information with the Encyclopedia Britannica, but promised to tell their editors. I'm not holding my breath waiting for a correction.

In case I need to establish my credentials on this, just google 'hexamethylenetetramine harbison' and look at the first hit. Hexamethylenetetramine is the correct chemical name of hexamine. I've done quite a bit of published research with the stuff.


The above article was posted on FR I believe and again at Harmonycentral.
You can check out the author here: http://setanta.unl.edu/harbison.html
 
FF,

Bounty lost any cred he had with the forged ANG/CBS memo fiasco.
AFAIC anything else posted by him is suspect and I will respond to it as such. It has become obvious, tedious and tiresome.
Other than that, I stand by my posts.

BTW...do you carry his books home from school, too?
 
I find it frustrating that we lost track of all those potentially deadly explosives. But I also find it frustrating that Kerry used it as a last second tool with which to attack President Bush. He chose not to address the two main points:

1) Where is the causal link to President Bush? Sure, he is the Commander in Chief and he gets to take the blame for everything. But is that really an election issue? Maybe the Army DID screw up. Maybe DoD screwed up to some degree. But it's hard for me to see how we should blame Bush specifically and tie that in to him being an unfit President?

It reminds me of when Baghdad fell and the call went out in the media that the national museum was being looted and it was an "outrage" that American troops weren't over there right now guarding it. While I thought it would have been nice to have avoided these looting problems, the fact remains that the job of the soldier at that point was to stay alive. There were still bad guys out there shooting at them. The Americans were still trying to get some kind of control of the whole situation. Security always comes before some admin function like controlling looting.

2) (Kerry never mentioned this one.) If the bad guys took all these tons and tons of very high grade explosives a year and a half ago, why haven't they ever used them? They have been blowing up stuff all over Iraq during that time. It has a very distinct signature; we would know in very short order if a bomb made from it was detonated. So despite all the outcry, no bad guy has used one gram of this stuff yet. I seriously doubt they are trying to get it all smuggled into the US or something. It would be far easier for them to buy explosives on the international market. If they had the explosives in Iraq, they would use them in Iraq. That's where the fight is. The fact that it hasn't happened leads me to believe they don't have it. What that means I leave to your imagination. Maybe they really did move all of it before we got there. Maybe it is buried in the desert. I don't know. But I doubt the bad guys have it more and more every day.

Gregg
 
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