Fighting rifles: Why not an M1 Carbine?

I'm interested in getting one, be it Gov't or IAI, down the road, but what's the advantage, if any, over a Mini-14 with TAP ammo in the mag? The M-1 is lighter but the .223 can defeat most body armor and hits harder, no?
 
I read some place that Audie Murphy used the M1 Carbine, said it worked fine at real combat distances.

For modern use, I'd load it with a JSP/JHP of some type.
 
It seems that there are many who feel that the M1 Carbine is an inferior combat weapon.

Audie Murphy, the most decorated U.S. soldier in WWII often carried an M1 Carbine. In fact, in his book "To Hell and Back" he referred to it at one point as his "lucky carbine". On another occasion, he mentions specifically requesting a carbine because he said: "I don't like an M1 (Garand) for this woods fighting."

Sooooo, let's see--on the one hand we have the endorsement of a distinguished combat veteran. And on the other hand--well, I guess we don't really have anything on the other hand--do we.
 
JohnKSa -
Keep in mind, although most of us are working with ballistic results as opposed to actual people killing experience, an urban encounter can vary a lot from a WWII battle. In times of war, you may have to penetrate garments made to deflect ricochets and flak at worst. In today's urban environment, you may very well have intruders wearing body armor and possibly trauma plates. I don't nessecarily mean government officials either. Body armor is available to the public and anyone that is serious about making home in vasion their profession would be even dumber to not invest in some. Personally, I like the M1 Carbine and did want one real bad a few months back. I just fell in love with it's big brother, the M1 Garand, instead. I don't think anyone is foolish for choosing one for their primary home defense weapon either. Even in a worst case scenerio, I'd rather have an M1 Carbine than a handgun. I am sure anyone here that put some thought into the matter would feel the same way.
 
I like my IBM M1 carbine for home defense. It is light, can be carried/fired with one hand, has a fifteen rnd mag in it and two more on the butt stock. With the bayonet fixed, I'd like to see the BG charge me in an effort to take my weapon. At close quarters it makes a real nice "point" and shoot weapon - seems with a goblin on the "point", pull the trigger and you can't miss!

I think the sound of the action being worked would have quite a psychological effect on a BG as well.

I like my carbine.
 
I have SKS for CQB, AK for main battle rifle, same ammo, one less headache, :D
I haven't handled M1 carbine thou,
 
I remember reading about FN,s new P 90 awhile back. Another high tech wonder weapon. The caliber was 5.7X28 if I remember correctly that,s the same as Melvin Johnson,s necked down 30 carbine round. I think IAI was going to bring this little round back to life in their carbine, but I,ve not heard anymore about it. I,ve still got an old Plainfield carbine that shoots well. I do think a little necked down 30 carbine would be interesting.
 
id love to have one.ruger copyed it and improved the round so the basic desighn is sound right.
besides when are you guys going into battle against armore ????
 
I like the M1 Carbine alot. Problem is the several that I have owned have been military surplus and none were reliable. This is why I like the feel and handling of the Ruger Mini 14. To me it feels exactly like the M1 Carbine but I like the .223 round better. 100% reliable and easy to get parts for.
 
Note that Audie Murphy's comment had to do with fighting in woods, at close range. I'd take a carbine over a Garand in those circumstances, also. More open terrain, longer distances--hey, different story!

Seeker, the sound of a carbine locking into battery has certain salubrious effects on folks. In Korea, we had a few folks with hen-house ways who liked to sneak around at night and harass the guys on guard duty. I figured I could be just as sneaky. Have you any idea of the amount of levitation possible for a guy, when a carbine's muzzle touches his temple, the action locks into battery, and a voice screams, "HALT!"?

:D, Art
 
The thing you have to remember about the M-1 carbine is that it is NOT a main battle rifle. It is between a handgun and a true fighting rifle with it's own little niche.

One of the articles already mentioned delved a little into the "bad" reputation of the Carbine and traced it to improper full-automatic use of the M-2. The article surmised that the poor stopping power was actually due to misses by those who fired in the full-automatic mode.

I hope to get one someday, and if I do, it will be a short-range firearm (up to 100 yards or so). If I need to shoot further, a Colt Match Target, M-1 Garand, or other rifle would be my primary choice.
 
The M-1 Carbine round is effective. An M-2 was used in my infantry co. in Nam(68-69) for the pointman. It was effective. I am comfortable with the 110 grain FMJ. my gunstore sells PMC for under $10 a box. I have the IAI and it is well made and accurate.
 
I like the M1 carbine, and you all make a good case for it being a first line response weapon for city senarios that were spoken of.
Longer sight radius, no over penetration, easier to shoot well than a pistol, etc..

Just about the time I resigned myself to accepting the fact that the M1 carbine fills a tactical niche, (from reading the thread), along comes longeyes and Tom B and blows it out of the water, IMO.

If this was 30 or even maybe 20 years ago the M1 carbine would make perfect sense. But BG's dont play fair anymore, do they? The point was made that some vermin have kevlar hides on both sides of law enforcement, (Dont flame me on this, that for another thread!), anyway, they ARE likely to be armored now, if they're not, good for you, but if they are; How'd you like to see the BG give him 5 or 6 30 carbines center mass and he turns and shoots you because he's armored?

Families cant afford ANY casualties, none are expendable. Maybe this sounds like a cliche' but you dont stay alive by underestimating your opponant. Times have changed, and household tactics must change with them if we are to take no hits, and this even means weapon selection. Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and the M1 carbine may get you through a tight spot sometimes, but probably not the worst of potential senarios. (Multiple armored BG's)

The Mini-14 is a carbine size weapon and the case for its use in this niche makes a little more sense in todays enviroment. I think I'd even prefer it in the woodsy senario that Art mentioned.

So now all we have to worry about is over penetration in the city and the TAP round mentioned by longeyes, addresses this, correct? What is it a light weight lower velocity round? Will it still penetrate soft armor? Can they be handloaded?

Maybe a short mag of TAP type ammo, backed up by mags of 55 gr FMJ's at ready with the weapon? I've never heard of 30 carbine being able to penetrate armor, isnt it about like a 38 special, powerwise?
 
The carbine IS a fine little weapon it IS fast, quick handling, and probably easier to hit with, with less training than a handgun, but................. you better make damn sure that you have tested your magazines because it they are just a bit out of whack it will trun that carbine into a jamming SOB. Penetation is just barely ok if the target is not wearing any kind of armor, or behind a tree, wall or such. Also you had better make a good heart/head shot or you had better have multiple hits. Personally I will take a M1A or a Garand.
I had an old High School teacher that was in the 101st during the battle of the bulge. he was telling about Greman soilders hiding behind good sized trees. Ons shot with Cal 30AP and you could see a patch of grey overcoat fly out from behind the tree...scratch one of Hitler's henchmen! A carbine cannot do that, nor can it quickly stop, penetrate, or ignite the fuel tank on an auto or light truck. If its all one had it will do, if not I would opt for a more potent round, and I dont mean a 5.56MM either.
 
M1 Carbine

Well I've shot one, and although its reliable, and accurate, the cartridge isn't enough. It can be compensated for in certain loads, though. You could consider the SKS carbine. It had the same role as the M1 in Soviet-influneced nations, can be fitted with detachable mags; although not designed to take them, but mine work fine, and fires the more powerful 7.62x39mm cartridge.
 
The Mini-14 and the M-1 Carbine (IAI) were both on sale in my area recently. I handled both. In my hands I preferred the M-1; it's amazingly light, short, and quick to sight. But in the end I bought the Ruger, despite some reservations I had about the well-documented magazine situation (or should I call it a scandal?). The reason is the cartridge. In terms of power, cost, and availability the .223 has a clear advantage, it seems to me, and as discussed, seems to address today's self-defense realities more completely. I may yet buy an M-1 Carbine--the form factor of the thing is really very appealing--but I admit I'd prefer it re-chambered for .223 or 5.7.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I on this forum can discuss the efficacy of Hornady's TAP ammo for tactical applications?
 
, isnt it about like a 38 special, powerwise?
Click to expand...

Remington has a ballistics info page at:
http://www.remington.com/Ammo/ballistics.htm

So I did a quick comparason of their data choosing what appeared to be the most similar data for the data sets offered:

Velocity (ft./sec.)
Cartridge Muzzle 50yd 100yd
.357 Mag 110 SJHP 1295 1094 975
.38 special 110 SJHP(+P) 995 926 871
.30 carbine 110 SP 1990 1567


Energy (ft.-lbs.)
Cartridge Muzzle 50yd 100yd
.357 Mag 110 SJHP 410 292 232
.38 special 110 SJHP(+P) 242 210 185
.30 Carbine 110 SP 967 600

The pistols used, in both cases, were described as 4" Vented.

FWIW, looks like the .30 carbine has more than twice the power.

If anyone knows a better web based source of ballistic info....let me know.
 
The M1 carbine I want is the one I have seen in a few articles in magazines. I don't know the name of the gunsmith or where he is located, but he rebarrels the M1 carbine for either .45 Win Mag, or .50 AE. :eek: They use the original magazine as a single stack for the big cartridges by playing around with the feed lips...

I want one in .45 Win Mag... :D

No more wimpy rounds in that M1.
 
Well, no personal experiance here, but I can relay a little of my Uncles experiance in the South Pacific, WWII. He had a M1 carbine, I belive he said it had been modified to shoot full automatic. He used it for a couple of days, found it to be very ineffective against the Jap soldiers. He said that the Jap soldiers at the beginning of the war were very radical, hyped up, hard to stop at times. Also ineffective against snipers in the top of palm trees, would not penetrate the palm leaves. Dumped it and grabbed a Tommy gun, also used a M! Rifle, depending on situation.
 
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