Fighting rifles: Why not an M1 Carbine?

Marko Kloos

Inactive
There are plenty of battleworthy rifles in my gun closet, but the one that's loaded up and ready for emergency use is my M1 Carbine. I keep it with a 30-round magazine in the gun, and two 15-rounders in the little butt pouch, for 60 rounds of instantly accessible "social medicine".

Where the AR-15 and AK-47 usually don't get derided as MOUT/CQB rifles, some folks belittle the M-1 Carbine as little more than a pistol with a buttstock, woefully underpowered and inadequate for serious fighting. Among the list of deficiencies are an "underpowered" round, limited range, and short sight radius for a rifle.

I happen to think that the M1 Carbine makes a fine and handy fighting tool. It has a bunch of features I find very desirable in a rifle, and its drawbacks are usually a non-issue for the kind of scenario any of us might encounter. The Carbine is very light, handy, can be held and fired one-handed if necessary, and it swings around extremely quick. Rate of fire is as high as any other semi-auto, recoil is very mild, and the sights are fairly good for an infantry rifle. The ammo is not a main battle rifle cartridge, but it has more punch than a pistol round and is perfectly adequate for the typical engagement distance of 300 yards or less. The ammo is lighter than most other rifle ammo and very compact, which means that the rifleman can carry more ammo with less bulk.

Listening to the detractors of the M1 Carbine, I always get reminded of the fact that while it was designed as a rear echelon & support personnel weapon, the Marines in the South Pacific thought it made a dandy fighting rifle. They loved the little carbine, and Marines know a thing or two about rifles and infantry combat. If it was good enough to be taken up the shores of Iwo Jima with the Marines, it's certainly good enough for me.

Bottom line: Next time you're looking for a centerfire semi-auto rifle that won't break the bank, has a ready supply of cheap 15- and 30-round magazines, is one of the handiest fighting rifles ever built, can be shot at most indoor pistol ranges, and is just plain fun to shoot, consider an M1 Carbine. There's a very good two-page article on the M1 Carbine and its viability as a LEO rifle in this month's S.W.A.T. Magazine, by the way.
 
I always find it interesting how some people will deride the carbine as obsolete, but then say that the MP 5 is the be all end all of weapons. The carbine is a great little gun.
 
If you're willing to live with the Carbine's restrictions, short range and low power for a rifle-class weapon, it is a fine rifle.

Even with those restrictions, though, the Carbine still gives you greater power than a handgun, greater range than a handgun, easier hitting ability than a handgun, and generally a lot more shots than a handgun.

Marine use of the Carbine wasn't based on the Marines' knowledge of fighting rifles so much as it was on the desire of some Marines to cut the weight they had to carry, especially during beach assaults. That was the same reason that the Carbine was so popular with Airborne troops.

There were exceptions, though. Some Marines and Airborn troops would trade their Carbines for the longer range and greater power offered by the M 1 Garand.

My great-uncle was in the 82nd Airborne during WW II, and made all of the drops made by the 82nd and never was wounded (lucky damned man).

In one of the only war stories he ever told me, he said that he couldn't finagle a submachine gun so early on traded for an M 1 Garand even though it increased his payload.

My first choice for an "anti-social" rifle is my SKS. It's what I have.
 
According to most accounts, both the Army and the Marines were actually unhappy with the M1 Carbine during World War II and Korea.
 
There is an interesting personal account of a man's "love affair" with the M-1 Carbine in this months issue of "Soldier of Fortune".

Scott A. Vaughn
 
The M-1 Carbine came about as a replacement for the 1911A1 for officers and truck drivers and suchlike folks.

A 100-grain bullet at around 2,000 ft/sec just isn't a true combat rifle cartridge, particularly with a full-patch bullet.

I once worked with a guy who was a Marine Corps medic in the South Pacific. He told me that Japanese patrols wouldn't even break stride if fired upon by a Carbine at anything over 500 or so yards. When they heard a Garand, they would scatter.

Inside 100 yards? Low stress? Heart/head hits? Fine.

FWIW, Art
 
The only thing holding me back from getting an M1 Carbine for a battle rifle is that I don't think the 30 Carbine round will do well against armor. Ather than that, I think it is the ultimate for unarmored urban warfare. The 30 Carbine is a nice little round and I can't think of a better platform to launch it from.
 
gotta agree with lendringser here, I keep a M1 handy with a 15 rd in and a 30 beside it, just the ticket around here what with the Coyotes and serial killers (we had one pass within a mile late last month, I mean both a coyote and a serial killer)

gotta love those Soft Points....

NB
 
Guess I'll come out of the closet and admit that my Inland M-1 Carbine stands in the closet with a 30 round mag and two 15's as spares...;)
 
I'd like to see a .30 carbine load with an 80 grn tapered FMJ slug.
This load would do a better job of disregarding ballistic fibres.
 
I have often wondered why the M2 Carbine (select-fire version) is not mentioned as being one of the precursors to the modern assault rifle. It seems to have the defining features: select-fire, intermediate cartridge, high capacity detachable magazine.

I read somewhere that, during the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans made extensive use of captured M2s. I do not know whether this was due to their own lack of supply, or because they preferred it to whatever else was available.
 
Although I have three AK's here in Kali it's insane to think of them as home defense weapons.Thats why I keep my National Postal Meter M1 carbine at ready with a 15 round mag of HP's.Its a great piece of history that still has practical use.
 
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Love my carbine, but main problem I have with it is that practice ammo is pretty high compared to the .223 or 7.62x39 and soft points and hollowpoint prices are out of sight in my area. If anyone knows a good source let me know.
 
Blue Duck,

Don't know where you're located, but my buddy bought a case of .30 Carbine at the last gun show in Mesquite, Texas.

It is Sellior & Bellot FMJ. Prices were $80 for 500 rounds, and $150 for 1000 rounds. That's still not exactly cheap, but it beats paying over $10 a box for 50!

I've seen a LOT of the "American" calibers from S & B being imported lately. Wonder when they'll get around to FMJ .30-'06? :confused:

Hope you can find some in your neck of the woods.

stars
 
That's still not exactly cheap, but it beats paying over $10 a box for 50!

Frankly I'd consider $10 a box to my door to be good at this point. Went to a "Friend of a friends" gunstore in town because I heard he was doing badly. Didn't have anything I wanted so just to be nice and show I was not a just a hang around sort of guy I asked for a box of UMC FMJ 30 carbine ammo before I left, $15.50 before tax!!!
 
Georgia Arms sells non-corrosive milsurp .30 Carbine for $8.99/50. They also have soft-point loads for $13.50/50. I picked up a few bags at the local gun show last weekend.
 
Blue Duck,

OUCH man! That's a little pricey.

I always buy a few boxes of ammo, or cleaning supplies from my neighborhood gun store, but it's not too bad.

The owner must wonder if I'm ever gonna buy a firearm from him, but I can't make myself overpay for something I can buy at a gun show for $50 to $100 less.

If you can find some of that S & B .30 Carbine ammo, buy some. It shoots pretty clean, and has very decent accuracy.

stars
 
Buzz,

Not sure whether you're talking about the "Official" military establishment, or the general line troops.

Anyway you cut it, though, the M 1 carbine was pretty popular with the troops simply because they were light, handy, and didn't kick a lot.

They must have been popular with the military, too, as more carbines were made than M 1 Garands by a wide margin. :)
 
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