Fighting Over A Deer I Shot?

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Woodguru,I just went and re-read your post on lead and wildlife.Something about level headed,etc.Interesting.
Makes me wonder.
In addition to many well thought,well spoken comments made already,
I turn my focus on your "having your Python in your hand under the guise of finishing the deer,but actually to get the drop on them..." not an exact quote,but close.
See,we do have legitimate right to SD when we are under mortal threat,but,getting out your gun to get the drop on them,as you approach a confrontation over the controversial issue of a dead deer?????
Plays perfectly into the fears of non gun folks who are concerned about the Hollywood stereotype."I was Marvin Milquetoast,but now I have a GUN in my hand,and I have the POWER"
In the woods deer hunting does not return us to the streets of Tombstone.
If we want to keep our precious freedom ,the RTKBA,we must be responsible.
A story like this is graffiti on the 2nd Ammendment.
 
Sayeth the Prophet Bro. Eastwood,

"When you kill someone you take away everything they have and everything they were ever going to have."

Shall we kill someone to protect our family or ourselve? Yea.

Shall we kill someone over a deer? Nay.

This conclude the today's lesson from the second book of Unforgiven.
__________________

OK, I see the point.

On the other hand, what specifically would you protect from those who'd rob you at gun point? In the example given, there was no dispute over who killed it. It was an armed robbery, with no guarantee that the victim was going to survive, or that they'd stop with stealing just the deer.

Not suggesting that that it would be tactically sound to take on several armed men who have the drop on you, but I believe deadly force to prevent armed robbery is likely within the parameters of the law.

On the other hand, if there's a dispute over who killed it, then deadly force should not even be an issue.:cool:
 
When you saw someone else had shot at it first, you should have backed off and not taken the shot. You were pretty much asking for what happened when you decided to shoot.

Absolutely! Sounds like there were three people way to hungry to fill a tag!!!

That was the last hunting I ever did on public land, it was back in about 1988. That was the last straw as far as the idiots that are out there hunting.

Yep, one less now!!!
 
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knobby,If we assume the story is as told,If these guys shot,missed,then te deer fell,from what was written,these guys believed they shot the deer.At the very least,they first engaged the deer,and apparently had not abandoned it.
If I put myself in their shoes,they may have believed they had a successful hunt till a person with a Python showed up to rob it away from them.
So then,who is facing an armed robber?
Now,if we assume these guys were just enjoying the idea they may have just filled the tag,just hunters,not robbers;,Who introduced armed conflict into the situation?The guy who walked up ,Python in hand,is the guy who made it a grave situation.The two guys at the kill may have had a right to defend themselves.
Becoming emotional and grabbing a gun to make yourself bigger and get your way is not the way to preserve the 2nd.
Each of us,every day,if we are armed,must remain a grown up.That is our responsibility to Liberty
 
knobby,If we assume the story is as told,If these guys shot,missed,then te deer fell,from what was written,these guys believed they shot the deer.At the very least,they first engaged the deer,and apparently had not abandoned it.

I was referring to shortwave's post where a hunter was robbed by thugs, not hunters. Guess I should have clarified.

Threats of deadly force over deer disputes simply shouldn't happen and not something I'd ever want to be a part of.

Of course, if others would attempt to take what they know to be yours, that becomes problematic and decisions will have to be made.

Anyone who fires at a deer that others are already shooting at would get little respect or sympathy from me. The term slob hunter comes to mind.
 
I am LUCKY to be able to hunt 300 acres of PRIME N/E FL woods with 2 other hunters :D My freezer is FULL of deer meat, & lucky there is'nt hogs on the property, But there is turkey,deer,bobcats, & other varmits ; )PS I aint fighting over no dang deer,Lifes to short ;)
Y/D
 
hooligan1
Senior Member

Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 653

Woodguru dude, Why did you even pull the trigger? I think you got yourself into one of those "sticky-wicket's", I know it's difficult to let some barbaric ass, take the hunt away from you , but on public land it can happen more frequent than people admit. If it would have been me I would have let the other hunters scenario play out. Had they ran the deer off, you'd a been back in the hunt for maybe another day. Most importantly YOUR STILL ALIVE!! I think all in all the after shot sequence was a +1 Woodguru, well played. You were probably right about them killing you as you work up the deer, never know, in this world. I myself would have never shot at a deer being engaged by another hunter, that's just my rule. However if the deer ran off with no holes in it, I'll take the next chance at it,. And if someone draws first blood, in my camp it's their deer.....period.

Wasn't sure how to quote what hooligan1 posted above. But he is right on.

You knew someone was shooting at that deer. If you had been the one shooting at it and someone else dropped it as you were about to drop it with a correction on your Kenturcky windage, wouldn't you be wronged? Someone getting shot or worse over any game isn't worth it it my opinion.
 
A guy offered me his tree stand today. he was done for the day !
I declined, as I don't do heights, but I have met some real nice guys out on state land.
 
I've met some great guys also hunting public land and try to help other hunters every chance I get. I hate it when someone will see that you are in a stand hunting and walk over and want to talk. We can talk later after I leave the hunting area. when I see another hunter is in an area I may be walking through, I go around them after waving to them that I see them. No sense screwing up their hunt.
 
Understand all of it but IMO the deer was engaged no matter if you feel you had scouted the area prior or not. It is your job to back down. If you couldn't see exactly where they were shooting from then they probably couldn't see where you were. Who's to say they hadn't scouted this area as well? Thats the problem with public land.

Now for you to *grin* at the idea of killing these two idiots sickens me as well. YOU are the one escalating the situation in your own story over the deer and then decide it isn't worth it.
 
And if someone draws first blood, in my camp it's their deer.....period.

Not every scenario is so clear cut. A hunter may shoot a wounded deer without knowning it has already been shot.
In Arkansas the law says whoever KILLS the deer has rights to it. Not who shot it first. The kill is what counts.
OTOH, arguments with angry guys who have guns isn't worth the risk or effort. Give it up, there will be other days and other deer.
 
You know what there uh Rifleman, I sure as hell can tell and I sure as hell will leave the Government out of my hunting. You can't tell me that in Most scenarios you can't tell if a whitetail is already wounded? There is a huge difference in the mannerisms of a healthy and a wounded deer, and if you hunt long enough on publioc ground you'll see it to be true. And Arkansas law needs to be changed to mind they're own damn business! If your young son or daughter shoots a deer that runs over the next hill only to have all the next crowd down it, what do you tell them? oh well you should shoot better? hell no, You go get they're animal!! I can tell if a whitetail has been wounded and it's my Duty as a hunter to extinguish this wounded animal as fast and painless as I can. That law does nothing to promote Good ethics especially in younger hunters. If my kids, shot a deer and it doesn't go down, there shoouldn't be any question in they're mind that they can't have the deer, because it ran off into the next barrage of hunters, Hell don't you think that would make for more people shooting down deer, before the deer has a chance to die from it's first wound???:rolleyes: Never in my years have I heard of such a deal. But if I ever hunt Arkansas I will remember to shoot the deer down til I'm out of ammo, or until it falls apart, or whatever to keep it from running to the nerxt group of shooters, Dove hunting maybe!!! Deer hunting never!!!! that's the way we hooligans role!!!:cool:
 
In Arkansas the law says whoever KILLS the deer has rights to it. Not who shot it first. The kill is what counts.

For the Legalist you are correct, however that is where ethics come in.
Take a permenent deer stand on public property. By law it belongs to the 1st person to climb into it. There is no other way to adress that by LAW.
However one should not go climbing into it on opening morning because they can. It just isn't ethical. Of course there could be 101 factors involved, but you get the drift I hope.

As for the OP, I think this thread has defined him to the point that if he were ever to get into a "sticky wicky" situation where bullets fly he had better have more than his word on what happened.
In His Own Words;
Fiction is harder to write than the truth, fiction has to make sense, the truth can be unbelievable.
 
Ohio's law is the same as Arkansa. Futhermore, in this state whether your on public or private land, you don't own that deer until its checked in at a checking station. Its the property of the state.

If the deers on its feet, don't care if its got 10 holes in it, legally its fair game.

If I still hunted on public land, you could bet if I pulled the trigger, I'd do my best to make sure that the deer I shot didn't run.

There are more than a few states with the same law. So before you run over the hill after a deer you shot thats still running,ready to go to war, only to hear a shot on yawn side of hill and see somebody else tagging your deer, make sure you're right. Even in Missouri.;)

Unethical, IMO yes. But so is the mandatory appeal in the death penalty case of a guilty self-confessed child murderer. But its the law.

I've shot deer coming through the woods which I knew were shot. Had no intentions of keeping the deer but just downing it till the person who shot it came along. I've not had one person yet that was angry at me for shooting the deer. They've all been very thankful.

The 'war zone' (shotgun season)starts here in Ohio in the morning. Hope everyone stays safe.
 
Actually there's some interesting responses to this. More than a few got my feeling on this which was that grey areas were crossed, conflict brought to the edge of lethal arms escalation, good sense prevailed in terms of a deer not being worth taking it further. I wouldn't have slept good at night shooting two guys over a deer. :)

In my defense I waited after the first shot for a second to see if the guy would follow up with a good shot, when it missed too I knew I had about one second to get that shell shocked deer before it was going into deer overdrive.

Let's say of those two guys hunting together one shoots twice and misses and his partner says to heck with this and drops it. I know for a fact there isn't going to be a dispute about who hit it or who's deer it is (the person who hit it is going to claim it), that's the standard common sense ethics of the matter.

This came down to me taking it to the ragged edge of someone blowing it and I stepped in as everyone was going to lose it and dropped it.

I was fully cognizant of that first shot and the second as well, had either shot even touched that deer there is no way I'd have shot it too. Had it been wounded and needing to be finished off I wouldn't shoot it unless told to by the original shooter, people get real sensitive about meat destroying second shots, I would not consider it my place to shoot an already shot deer.

A deer will stand there frozen from a missed shot or even two, but when their sense of shock wears off they are moving into top gear to a degree that not many people are going to put a bullet to them.

I don't think I made a horrible decision shooting when I did, and nine out of ten hunters would have been 100% aware that my bullet dropped the deer, and more than likely humbled by missing from 75 yards when I hit it from over 250. Had I had two nice guys on the other end of this I'd have offered to clean and split it with them because I wouldn't have wanted to deal with it myself if I had a chance to have help and camaraderie for the job. My tag, they get half the deer that wasn't their hit, most would have left happy. This was a big deer and I didn't have freezer space for that much anyway, I'd have been giving half of it away regardless.

No, I encountered white trash locals used to throwing their weight around in numbers. I looked like a wealthy out of towner with fancy clothes and gear and they didn't know I was a local Georgetown bad boy gone good. I was using this here as one of those examples of something that can have life altering consequences in the split second it takes for someone to make a bad move when the shoe is not on the right foot.

To me what goes through someone's head as they are in the middle of a potentially life threatening altercation is fascinating stuff. Every person has a lot of scenarios running through their head, most critical is the equation of what side of the law am I on here? A cop facing a gun wielding threat knows he has only to use set criteria for pulling a trigger and he's good. The bad guy has to do the math himself as to can he get away with it, is it defense as a criteria or will he have to get away clean and without evidence.

What was going through my head was actually sort of humorous in a dark kinda way, and there's a lot of guys riding the straight and narrow that wouldn't see the humor at all.

Allright, I'll let it roll even though it will be with mixed reviews. As the one guy was edging to one side and looking itchy to grab his pistol I was running scenarios. The one I saw that was a split second away from happening was that I was about to have to shoot both guys because one was about to make a grab for a gun. No doubts in my head it was going to be a fact. I was running what was going to have to happen as far as how I handled it and I started laughing and said they could have the deer. They were both a little annoyed that there seemed to be some joke they weren't a part of (but yes they were). Why was that funny and why I arrived at giving them the deer?

Simple, because if I shot their ignorant redneck butts I was going to have to hightail it back across the clearing to my vehicle and leave the deer anyway. I'm sorry, I just wouldn't have been stupid enough to gut and haul that deer after shooting two guys. In thinking the whole process of what I'd have to do I was already aware of the fact that I had picked up my ejected shell because I reload, I was clean. But fact of the matter was there was no point in escalating this to shooting when I couldn't have the deer anyway.

Come on, I'm being facetious, a deer isn't worth anyone's life. But that dark little scenario was running in my head along with the other sensibilities. I wouldn't have shot them even if I could have had the deer. :), I definitely would have had they done something stupid. Part of the reason that guy said I could have half the deer was that perhaps they were catching on that they could be in trouble.

All the "I'd have got caught" comments aren't necessary, this was in a area that people get shot or go missing all the time, certain incidents such as this never do get solved, they are just too random.

That's why I don't hunt on public land anymore, I've known several people who got shot intentionally because the guys who did it knew they could get away with it.
 
Woodguru et al.:

"Ya'll keep saying a dead deer wasn't worth my life; well, that never ever occurred to me. The only thing running in my mind was was it worth killing two idiots for." Right there is why this 'Nam vet does not go hunting alone. I have learned, hard way, some life is cheap. And some idiots need killin'. I always sleep well.
 
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