FFL transfers

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I just called the LGS doing the FFL transfer--they just told me my rifle is at the bottom of the pile for receiving and processing and has not been registered into their books yet. I was also told not to call them, that they would call me when that happens. I'll give Weatherby a call on Monday and see if they can grease the wheels a bit.

Well, they just called and said I could come and get it today after all.:D:rolleyes:
 
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If they received the gun on Wednesday or Thursday and didn't get around to entering it into their bound book until Saturday, they're just asking for a BATFE enforcement action.
 
If they received the gun on Wednesday or Thursday and didn't get around to entering it into their bound book until Saturday, they're just asking for a BATFE enforcement action.
I was wondering about that myself--seems odd I was told I'd have to wait til Monday and then got a call an hour later saying "come and get it." Anyway I made the long drive and got it and just got back.
 
buck460XVR
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Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
A hint that they don't really want to do transfers.
The process of recording/receiving "their guns" vs "transfer guns" is identical.
....but, the FFL is the one who initially opened themselves up to doing transfers. If they really don't want to do them, why don't they take themselves off the list?
"the list" may be a list the receiving dealer never signed up for.
There are numerous "Find a transfer dealer" search engines that are simply downloads of the current ATF list. While some online sellers (like Buds, Brownells, PSA, CDNN) have a "preferred dealer" list....that just means the dealer has told them they are willing to accept their transfers. It should not imply that the receiving dealer is cheap, efficient or offers excellent customer service skills.




For the most part, transfers are pure profit and take very little time,
Really? How long you been a gun dealer and doing transfers?:rolleyes:
That statement tells me you've NEVER done a one. While you see the dealer spend five minutes with you, you don't see anything else related to the transfer.

That $10 or $20 fee? It covers the utilities, the rent, the expense of alarm systems, inventory insurance for fire, theft, damage. FYI safes aren't free.

You don't see the time spent unboxing your firearm, the recordkeeping that occurs before you arrive, the recordkeeping that occurs after you've left or virtually any other business activity that occurs outside of the five minutes the dealer spends with you. Add in the occassional mystery gun with no info on seller, no info on buyer and the detective work to chase down that info...its not every day but happens at least twice a week.

Anyone believing transfers are "pure profit" is sadly misinformed.
 
mk70ss My local gun shop calls me when the gun arrives and within an hour I am home with the gun, transfer complete for $20.
I email the transferee within an hour of the gun being in my hands. That doesn't stop people from texting, emailing or calling every five minutes asking "can I come get it now"....just because FedEx or UPS sent them an update that shows "out for delivery".:mad:
 
Aguila Blanca If they received the gun on Wednesday or Thursday and didn't get around to entering it into their bound book until Saturday, they're just asking for a BATFE enforcement action.
ATF will never know unless an irate customer rats them out.
 
"Really? How long you been a gun dealer and doing transfers?
That statement tells me you've NEVER done a one. While you see the dealer spend five minutes with you, you don't see anything else related to the transfer."
"That $10 or $20 fee? It covers the utilities, the rent, the expense of alarm systems, inventory insurance for fire, theft, damage. FYI safes aren't free."
"You don't see the time spent unboxing your firearm, the recordkeeping that occurs before you arrive, the recordkeeping that occurs after you've left or virtually any other business activity that occurs outside of the five minutes the dealer spends with you. Add in the occassional mystery gun with no info on seller, no info on buyer and the detective work to chase down that info...its not every day but happens at least twice a week."
"Anyone believing transfers are "pure profit" is sadly misinformed."

Not to mention the time, potentially up to an hour or more if there are NICS issues, that the employee(s) spend with the $20 transfer that could be spent with one or more other customers who might be buying multi-hundred dollar firearms. Transfers are not a cost-efficient profit stream for a small business.
 
ATF will never know unless an irate customer rats them out.
Or an atf agent pays a visit--does happen. While I was picking up my rifle today I saw something that is quite common, and shops have been nailed for in the past--that being out-of-state buyers attempting to buy an other transfer category not allowed for non-residents.
 
For the most part, transfers are pure profit and take very little time,

If the guy doing the transfers knows what he is doing it isn't that big of a deal. Some guys make it out to be a bigger deal than it is so they can justify higher transfer fee's

When I get an e-mail confirmation that the gun has been delivered I've usually been at the store within an hour and home 15 minutes later. The guy I deal with does transfers for $5, or for free if you pay for an hour of range time. I've never waited to be called.
 
I was charged 50 smackers BTW.:D:D Even if it took a whole hour (which it didn't) and considering cost of goods, I'd say that's a pretty good profit margin. I run my own business and usually spend much more time than that on the phone consulting with prospective new clients.
 
$50 is the typical transfer fee around my corner of the universe.

stagpanther said:
I was charged 50 smackers BTW. Even if it took a whole hour (which it didn't) and considering cost of goods, I'd say that's a pretty good profit margin.
Your calculation of profit margin omitted overhead. If the transfer is for a firearm that has already been bought and paid for, obviously the FFL has no cost of goods to consider. But he does have rent, utilities, insurance, and possibly other recurring costs to be paid out of the proceeds from the business, and then he needs something left over to call "profit."

Let's assume your FFL has a storefront, but for a month he doesn't sell any guns. He only does transfers, at one hour per transfer. Let's say he's open 8 hours a day, six days a week. That's 192 hours for the month. But it's unlikely he can do eight transfers every day for an entire month. Let's round down and call it 150 transfers. At $50 each, his total income for the month is $7,500.

Out of that he has to pay the rent, the electric bill, the phone bill, the heating and cooling bill, the water bill, advertising, insurance, and the monthly prorated portion of whatever business licenses he needs to stay in business. And he needs to pay himself a salary. What's a fair annual income for an FFL? How about $72,000? That's $6,000 a month. So if he's going to pay himself a reasonable wage, that leaves only $1,500 to pay all the other costs of doing business. It's highly unlikely that $1,500 will even come close to covering those expenses, but they have to be paid -- which means he doesn't take home $6,000 that month.

Where's the profit margin?
 
stagpanther said:
You mean like if Walmart decided that it had to pay all it's expenses exclusively from the sale of snickers candy bars?
Not an apt comparison, and you know it. A business the size of Walmart has certain items that are "loss leaders," and they make up for what they lose on those by the profits on other items they sell.

You propose that a $50 transfer fee for a transaction involving an hour of an FFL's time results in a "pretty good" profit margin. I have explained why I don't think it generates any profit margin, so please explain how you conclude that it generates a "pretty good" profit margin.
 
dogtown tom said:
Aguila Blanca If they received the gun on Wednesday or Thursday and didn't get around to entering it into their bound book until Saturday, they're just asking for a BATFE enforcement action.
ATF will never know unless an irate customer rats them out.
I understand that. The fact that the BATFE may not find out doesn't mean that it's correct, or that enforcement action can't happen if the BATFE does find out. I know a guy who lost his FFL over paperwork discrepancies that were much less sever than that.
 
You propose that a $50 transfer fee for a transaction involving an hour of an FFL's time results in a "pretty good" profit margin. I have explained why I don't think it generates any profit margin, so please explain how you conclude that it generates a "pretty good" profit margin.
I've done countless FFL transfers over decades, the vast majority of them have taken just a few minutes to process except in the event the line may be tied up. The rifle comes in just like all their other inventory, gets checked in and generally sits in the floor and in a corner while God knows how many bubbas may or may not be handling it before you get it. You're never going to convince me these guy's time is worth lawyer's billables--just like I'll never convince you it's an inexpensive operation. This conversation is over as far as I'm concerned.
 
stagpanther
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ATF will never know unless an irate customer rats them out.
Or an atf agent pays a visit--does happen.
No, it would be an extraordinarily rare occurrence. Being that ATF is limited to one compliance inspection per year and doesn't have the staff to audit more than 10-12% of licensees.........it just doesn't happen as you believe.


While I was picking up my rifle today I saw something that is quite common, and shops have been nailed for in the past--that being out-of-state buyers attempting to buy an other transfer category not allowed for non-residents.
1. It's not a violation of any Federal law for a non resident customer to inquire about purchasing a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun.
2. The dealer can sell the handgun/AR lower/silencer/barreled receiver to the non resident, but the nonresident cannot take possession. The firearm would have to be shipped to a dealer in the buyers state of residence.
3. Dealers that sell/transfer firearms other than rifles or shotguns to a nonresident.....are idiots.
 
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