Feminists

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Kathryn

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Why are feminists more likely to be Democrats and/or believers in big gummint? Because the gummint has immensely helped them. I've been helped by attending a good public school, getting a state scholarship for college, and attending a public graduate school. I had a nice government internship to boot. Other women have been helped by legislation such as Title 9 and the EEOC. These assists were legislated because the ingrained sexists across the country could not be morally compelled to level the playing field. So I think it is entirely understandable that feminists think the gummint is a good thing.

I became more conservative after living in a communist controlled city for several years. Their thieving rent control laws ruined most of the city. Then it turned out that their public school was bad, so bad that I put my 1st grader into private school. Guess who's for property rights and vouchers? A converted Libral.

Just a little background for those of you descending on the Ms boards…
 
There is a lot of truth to the saying that a conservative is a liberal who was mugged. Things go well until they don't. All of those anti-gun pro-14 day waiting period people in California were surely converts (until they forgot their week or two of fear and went back to their sheepish ways) when the LA went up in the riots and they couldn't run out and buy guns to protect their lives and property.
 
Kathryn,

I find that most of my feminist friends remain in the "liberal" camp over "choice" rights more than anything else. I recall a famous feminist stating "If roe vs wade is overturned you are gonna see more flags burned than congress ever dreamed". Its the same reason N.O.W. didn't attack Clinton over the Lewinsky scandal.. sure he is a pig, but he's a pro-choice pig. Until the republicans BREAK with the religuous right and step into the pro-choice realm, not too many feminists will stray to the republican side of the room.

I don't beleive in being a one issue voter, but MANY women I know abosolutely REFUSE to vote republican strictly on this issue. Some food for thought.

Dr.Rob
 
Dr. Rob,

If feminists feel strongly about the choice issue (and of course they and I still do), it can transform to support of other rights. They can be swayed. But your point is, then how can they vote their conscience? The Libertarians are happy to help out here.
 
Hi Kathryn, Dr Rob, and all-

I am a committed feminist supporter myself. Despite my views on gun control, I also find it extraordinarily difficult to vote for Republican candidates who are controlled by the religious right. I understand that most pro-choice women will end up HAVING to vote Democrat due to that factor only. The Libertarians and the Reform Party, unfortunately, have not provided sensible alternatives in their choices of candidates. I suspect that they might even have poisoned their image enough that many will not vote for them even if they come up w/ a good candidate - for instance the Perot/Ventura/Trump story...

It is unlikely that the Republicans will wean themselves soon of the deleterious influence of the religious right. I do think that it opens the door to a 3rd party condidate in the future, who would be socially sympathetic to many democratic themes yet fiscally conservative and open to gun rights. But the effort of making it happen is so huge...

You are right, not much hope in the near future...
 
The two party system has devolved to the point where only extremist views are represented, because the extremists give the most money.

Who do you vote for if you 1)want to keep your guns, 2)don't want the government making medical decisions for women, 3)think maybe it would be okay if we had one less regional subspecies of salamander as long as farmers can still raise crops 4)think the war on drugs is a phenomenal waste of money and humanity, 5)think both Gore and Bush are both empty suits whose best qualification for the presidency is the ability to take orders from their handlers and believe their own press packages.

Interestingly, there was a revolution in the last half of the nineteenth century that is not discussed very much. The Grange movement began when western farmers were forced to pay excessive rail prices for shipping their goods east. The rails were controlled by monopolies who could set any price they wished, "the public be damned."

Third party candidates were supported by the Grange movement and the resulting shake-up in political parties actually benefitted the people in the middle, trying to make a living to the best of their ability. Radical ideas from the 1870s and 1880s.
 
Republicans and the religious right,
So besides abortion what other issues does the religious right push that the republicans carry the standard for?

If there is a religious right, does that means that there is a religious middle and left? Can you identify these groups / issues for me so I can identify them?

As far as weaning the republicans from the religious right, it will never happen until the people who don’t like them turn out and vote republican in greater numbers than the religious right. Keep voting for the democrats because of the anti abortion stance of the Republican party and you will never have the clout to change the party. You cant change the party by sitting on the fence waiting.

The Local Central committee has, as one of its major requirements for members to be Pro-Life. This is directed from the grass roots level. So by abandoning the party you are helping to perpetuate those policies that you wish to change.



[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
Originally feminism was about Civil Rights...equal pay, equal treatment, equality. Now its a sham and an umbrella for every bizarre concept coming down the pike.
Its not about Civil Rights any longer...its about special treatment, special privileges, special influence...all at the expense of others. A pox on the besotted harridans

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I find many democrats to be in that camp because they believe it's good for the government to give us things. Isn't free education good? Isn't free health care for the poor good? Isn't free housing for the homeless good? Whenever I've tried to explain that the money comes from our paychecks, they say that's okay because they're happy to pay for these good programs. By trying to argue that many people don't agree and don't want to pay for these programs, they say that these people are selfish and should be willing to help out their fellow man.

How do you argue with that?

Sure, you can argue that the government is wasteful in these programs, and that up to 80% of programs like welfare go to overhead, but they say that there aren't other programs to support, and that the government ones are the best that we have, and perhaps that they do also donate money to similar charities.

The difficulty is trying to convince them that's it's wrong to forcibly take money from someone just because you think that they should support something.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
Originally feminism was about Civil Rights...equal pay, equal treatment, equality. Now its a sham and an umbrella for every bizarre concept coming down the pike.
Its not about Civil Rights any longer...its about special treatment, special privileges, special influence...all at the expense of others. A pox on the besotted harridans
[/quote]

Is that the truth or just your unbiased opinion? Do you appreciate other ppl calling you a crazed gun nut that cares nothing for children who've been killed? :confused:
 
Its both the truth and my biased opinion

Care to dispute it Kathryn? Tell me, whats left to legislate? Sexual harrassment? Legislated as well...however, its enforced against the poor working sap and Republican pols, but not the nice Democrats. Just like government, once the goal is accomplished, it still won't go away.
"A woman's right to choose"?...law of the land, and of course it must be subsidized as well by all taxpayers.

Rather than a made up term like feminist I consider myself independent and equal

Further, I hardly think "besotted harridans" is even remotely on a par with gun-crazed nuts responsible for all the child killings. :)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!



[This message has been edited by DC (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
DC,

I think you may be confusing feminism with some group's political agenda... As others might confuse RKBA people with the Columbine killers.

I've not been a dues paying member of NOW or other groups for a while, so I don't know what they may be working on. Regardless, I am a proud feminist.

Won't you tone it down? Or should ppl that disagree with you just leave the board?
 
Kathryn, please check your e-mail

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I have nothing against the feminist movement. However, from the time spent over at Ms. Magazine and some of Kathyrn's statements, why are feminists so emotional?

There is nothing wrong with a heated, civil discussion. Unfortunately, with 95% of the women on that board, if you disagree with them on anything, you're a sexist. I gave up trying to discuss RKBA with them. Their minds are polluted. HOWEVER, I did venture to some of the other forums at Ms. and currently carrying on some delightful discussions. Just as long as we don't talk about guns.
 
I saw this posted by a guy on Ms. Magazine.
He has an excellent point.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
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I suggest that the reason you think women have it worse is because all your life you have been subjected to feminist propaganda. Most of the "facts" you "know" about women's issues will be lies (like the "equal pay for equal work" lie) and all the male issues you might have heard about are stiffled by a press far too worried (until quite recently) about offending their female pay masters (because women control consumer spending).
I regularly challenge feminists to name issues for women and almost none can ever name an issue where women are worse off than men. The thinking of society is framed as female only. For example look at how the pro-abortion issue is phrased as "pro-choice" when the only choices about reproduction are given to the woman.

How many women would like the "equality" of knowing someone else could choose to kill their unborn child and they couldn't even have a say in the matter? How many women would like to swap with men and be forced to look after a child they didn't want? How many women would want to lose their children, taken by a sexist government that regularly rigs child custody away from them?

Just look at that last issue alone. Tell me ANY woman's issue that matches up to it. Today most people get married. Most marriages fail. And when they fail the woman will steal the man's children almost every time... He may never see them again. If that was happening to women do you think that would be their number one issue? Easily.
[/quote]
 
On the other hand, when that guy tried to support his assertion about inequal pay being a lie, he got his ass handed to him. Maybe he was right and maybe he was wrong, but there's no way I can support him until he figures out how to support his view. Frankly, his opponent was convincing and he was not.
 
Equal opportunity can be argued on and on and on till both parties are blue in the face. I for one don't have the staminia for it. I've really never had a problem in my everyday life with this issue. Maybe because my girlfriend and I discuss every issue that comes up before it becomes a problem.

Who knows, guess it doesn't phase me as much coz I lack interest in it.
 
The word "feminist" has been stereotyped into a bad thing. Wise women would choose to stay away from that word, because the stereotype brought on by the loudmouths on TV who call themselves "feminists" is not going to go away.

It is like the word "survivalist". How many of us would go out right now and tell everyone we are "survivalists"? Why not, that is what we are? The reason is because the term has been destroyed by stereotypes and the mere mention of the word brings on bad thought.

"Feminist" is a word that should be buried by people who want equal Rights for women. You will never change the negative image that it now brings on, and this image was created by the radical leaders of this movement.

Sounds simple, and it is really. Words are powerful and I would suggest we use another.


Also, someone that has a VERY similar past and conversion to the one told above is Dr. Laura Slessinger. She was a RADICAL Feminist until she ended up a victim of her own governement programs. It is a very interesing story really, and has little or nothing to do with her current show. A lot of radical leftists are really ignorant until they fall victim to their own efforts. Then all we can say is "I told you so" and unfortunately the damage is already done and takes a lot more effort to fix.



[This message has been edited by CassandraComplex (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
I'm a male lesbian, would this count me as a feminist? If it does, I don't vote democrat and I believe government should be cut in half.

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"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"

[This message has been edited by walangkatapat (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
As far as the pro-choice issue, I am betting we are all glad that our moms were pro-life.


My wife's mom had an abortion of her first pregnancy. And she almost aborted her second pregnancy (my wife was the third pregnancy). Then she chose to keep her daughter who is now my wife.

I tell you what, it really messes with your head to know that you SHOULD have a brother or sister right now, but they were killed. What would that person have been like if they were alive today as your sibling?
And, it also messes with your head to know that your mom almost killed your sister that she is now alive. Imagine life without her.
And then, you are wondering if your mom considered aborting YOU, and you are so glad your mom chose not to have you chopped up and sucked out of her womb with a vacuum cleaner or burned alive in the womb with high concentration salts. These are the things my wife goes through. It messes with your head when it hits home. I am just glad her mom chose to keep her and we kinda miss her sibling that was never allowed to be born.
 
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