felt recoil "quantification"

One remark, recoil depends on impulse, not energy. Which is why heavier bullets kick more than lighter bullets of equal energy.
m(bullet)V(bullet) [+m(gas)V(gas)]*= m(gun)V(gun)
*negligible for most handguns, big factor shooting magnum rifle
I think hardball's formula is derived from this, not sure with all the conversion factors (long live SI)
 
I don't think mathematical recoil is very useful, as the actual 'felt' recoil often depends on highly subjective grip ergonomics.

Case in point: the standard M&P versus the newer M&P Pro (with the highly textured back straps and palm swells). Both are as near mechanically identical as you'll ever find in a handgun, yet the Pro's recoil impulse feels dramatically different just because I can get a more secure grip on the gun. The total energy should be identical, but the impulse feels smoother and gentler probably because I don'd squeeze the grip as hard, and some of the energy is distributed to my palm instead of straight back through the backstrap.
 
P71pilot said:
A person with meatier hands and that has more mass on their arms will probably be less effected by recoil/recoil shock/impact. The muscle and fat would act like rubber or water and spread/absorb the energy. A person with skinnier boney hands and arms would probably feel the recoil more so.
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Theoretically yes, but I believe it has more to do with an individual's nervous system than how massive they are.
 
Don't forget to throw in all the fringe elements "felt" encompasses......

By the numbers, a Walther PPK/s should have less felt recoil than a Browning High Power.

In real life, the narrower backstrap of the PPK/s and the way the slide chewed a furrow in the back of my hand made the "recoil" very unpleasant.

Speaking of the Browning - - many complain about "Hammer bite" with that particular gun.

Likewise, the actual "kick" on my S&W M66 snubbie with full boogie magnums wasn't the problem, it was the way it chewed up the web of my hand with the cylinder release when I shot it rapid D/A.

.44 mag S&W M29?
Sure it kicks - being a 4" barrel wearing the stock oversize target grips, it kicks like a mule - - I enjoy that!
What I hate is the way it raises a blister with the first two shots, then "pops" that blister by shot number 5.
Shot number 6 - is pure agony.

I guess you could argue that none of that is really "felt recoil".......but...none of it happens without the gun being in recoil...
 
I think felt recoil is more about quality than quantity.
Quantity can be measured objectively; put the gun in a bench vise, shoot it, and see how far/high the muzzle has rotated. That's recoil quantity.
Shoot the gun in your hand, and try to characterize the recoil sensation as "soft", "sharp", etc.; that's quality.
There's even disagreement about which is "better"; some people prefer the "softer" recoil sensation of stiff recoil springs. But, that results in both more muzzle flip and more muzzle dip, so you can generally shoot better, if repeat shots are of any importance, using a lighter spring that might result in a sensation of "sharper" or even "more" recoil.
I often shoot a 3.5" .45, which has "a lot" of recoil because of its small size and light weight, but very little muzzle flip because the slide is very light, again due its small size.
It's quite subjective.
 
I doubt that it is possible to quantify 'felt' recoil.

The difference in perception between someone who is young and in good shape vs. some who is elderly, suffering poor health, maybe arthritic and/or perhaps someone who has an above-average sensitivity to loud noises or other physical stimuli make such a pursuit very difficult, if not outright impossible.
 
Maybe mixing in a glove size would help a lot.

The health and arthritic are not that important. That is going to affect recoil for every item they test at somewhat similar levels. When you get to the extremes on the spectrum it might have more effect, but in the middle I don't think it would be too much of an effect.
 
Very interesting brain exercise! I also believe it very difficult to quantify felt recoil, I just know what has milder and stouter perceived recoil. I find .40 S&W to be extremely accurate but pretty stout in recoil, 9mm and .45 ACP fairly mild and pleasant. I very much enjoy shooting 9mm out of heavy full size guns and my experience with a small PF9 was distinctly unpleasant, however, in the full size but rather light M&P Pro I find it to be a pleasure to shoot. The smallest and lightest .45 I own is a CCO pattern 1911 and it has more felt recoil than a government, but not by much. I feel that perceived recoil is harsher for me on high bore axis/low hold guns but very manageable in beavertailed low bore/high hold guns regardless of caliber. I own one .380 in the LCP and while many find it bites, I feel it is nowhere near as hellish to shoot as that old PF9. Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I think it has more to do with .380 being much milder than 9x19.

I actually don't own any short barreled revolvers, but I find .38 Special to be pleasant in all standard to full size revolvers and .357 Magnum to be unpleasant no matter the platform. I love the idea of .357 and up, but I just can't bring myself to want to shoot it. YMMV
 
Until I get to the rifle caliber barrels on my Contender pistol like 35 Remington, and 45-70, or top end loades in my Super Blackhawk 44 Magnum, I don't notice much difference from 380 in an LCP to 45acp in a Colt 1991a1 Compact, or 10MM in my G20. With stops along the way at 9MM, 38Spcl., and 357 Magnum.
I'm pretty much with Dufus. Except for my biggest boomers, especially that 10" 45-70 Contender, recoil, what recoil?:D
Not saying I don't "feel" it, I just don't notice much difference from gun to gun, round to round.
 
recoil?

Except for my biggest boomers, especially that 10" 45-70 Contender, recoil, what recoil?
Not saying I don't "feel" it, I just don't notice much difference from gun to gun, round to round.
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Yep. Very much my experience. And..that 45-70 Contender pistol absolutely gets your attention.
A quick anecdote: about 25 years ago..I had acquired a .45-70 barrel for my Contender. I had stopped by the range after work to practice a bit. It was getting on toward dusk and the muzzle flash from the thing was quite bright....that, coupled with the muzzle flip must have been quite a sight. During a break, one fellow came up to me and asked what it was that I was shooting. I told him. He paused for a moment, looking at the gun, and then said "why don't you just hit yourself with a hammer?"
Pete
 
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